(forgive me, I feel like arguing about this)

lets see...

Cobra is in the vette territory and srt-4 is dangerously close to camaro territory from the factory

So while everyone else (ford and dodge) is breaking boundaries... chevy is (well probably will be) living in the past. The vette needs to raise the bar a bit and get out of mustang/cobra territory, and the camaro needs to do the same and get out of NEON territory. I could list more reasons, but that should be enough in itself.

 

The 5th gens z28/SS may or may not best the Cobra model (we don't know yet), but it'll be more than competitive against the other more common mustangs imo. That is what really matters. If it shows its tail to Machs and GT's, why sweat over a couple of limited production high dollar Cobra's?

Thing is, If Ford takes the Cobra into the 40k range, what can chevy do to compete with it? It is in a whole different price bracket.

Another thing, Ford is talking of further seperating Cobra from the rest of the mustang lineup in terms of price, refinement, looks, hardware, technology, and performance. Is GM willing to put that much seperation between the 5th gen top dog and the lower 5th gen models?

And don't even worry about the SRT-4. They aren't even as quick as the late 4th gen Ls-1 models.

 

Ford has no Corvette, and unless the Cobra begins to perform like a Ford GT, they don't have to worry about product overlap or producing a lower priced vehicle that performs as well as or better than their higher priced version.

Many people don't realize that Chevrolet is in a very odd position. They are perhaps the only carmaker on the planet besides Nissan that has 2 very high performance vehicles in their showroom that share space in the performance car segment (Nissan had the Skyline & Fairlady Z both as high performance cars.... Fairlady Z is what Nissan calls their "Z" car in Japan).

With Corvette-Cobra-Camaro, you have an endless game of the dog chasing it's tail:

1. Corvette makes a benchmark in performance.
2. Ford has no Corvette, so Cobra moves up to match Corvette as much as a 4 passenger car can.
3. If Camaro moves up to Cobra levels, it makes the Corvette become irrelevent unless it also moves up.
4. The whole process happens over & over again.

Problems with this situation:

1. Corvette will always be the 1st to hit the performance benchmark.
2. Cobra will always move up to Corvette levels the following year.
3. Camaro will always either be a year behind Cobra or at the very best, match Cobra each year it's performance is upgraded. Camaro will never have the same performance as the Corvette till the Corvette moves up a level, while Cobra will never be more than a year behind, therefore a year ahead of the Camaro.

The only way to rectify this situation is:

1. Quit yer whining, and realize that a $25,000 Camaro only has to out perform a $25,000 (or even $30,000) Mustang, and not a $40-45,000 Cobra.

2. Kill off the Corvette leaving Camaro the top performing Chevy (if you actually think this is going to happen, you may now remove your head from your posterior and get some much needed air).

3. Ford turns Cobra into a 2 passenger Corvette-like sports car (like, yeah, right!).

4. Camaro is killed off permanently, Pontiac brings back the Firebird, and since Firebird doesn't have to share showroom space with the Corvette, and the GTO is a totally different market altogether, it can become the "Cobra-hunter" some of you are craving.


So, if you want an F-body that kills Cobras without having to force the money making Corvette to justify it's existence, write GM in favor of killing the Camaro in favor of the Firebird.

Otherwise, you are just wasting your time and whatever electricity it's taking to run your computer because you are making zero business sense.

 

I like that last idea of yours . I'm not sure Pontiac has the room for a Firebird anymore though. You've got the Solstice on one side, and the goat on the other. While the Goat is not similar on the outside, or inside for that matter, what's under the hood is. I'm not sure Pontiac wants two cars with a Corvette engine. Maybe if they ditched one of their sedans and turned it into the Firebird (they'd just have to lighten the load to make it move with the smaller engine).

 

The next-gen GTO will become the 4-seat Vette (same engine and similar performance) that will crush the Mustang Cobra.

 

The next Cobra will be pushing 500 horsepower.

That's an awful lot of crushing.

 

That kind of stinks for the Vette. It gets a brand-new 400hp engine and the Mustang comes along a year later with a 500hp engine.

 

Thats why im saying vette needs to kick it up a notch along with the camaro... but gunion's comment about the dog chasing its tail makes sense. Except Id rather see chevy be the tail a little more and let ford and dodge do more chasing... its the other way around right now.

 

Um, the Z06 will likely have around 500hp to compete with the Cobra. The current Z06 is the direct competitor to the Cobra, not the base vette....so why would you expect it to change?

 

yeah it might have 500 hp, but in the end it is still a Mustang. And I'm not talking bad about stangs, but compare it to a Lambo, or Ferrari, or even a Corvette. Big deal, its 500 hp, but it lacks the quality, and presence that the other cars do. How much farther can the bar go up without topping out? The old cars back in the 60's had 400+ hp from the factory. Well now we are finally back to that state of production. Only with allot more efficiency. I just think that we are at the top of the hp game now, or pretty darn close. Any higher and you get in to exotic range, or race car range. JMHO

 

It might be "just a mustang" but you get a hell of a lot for your $$. The vette should be more refined and be of better quality for the premium you pay over the stang.

I'd say the mustang isn't doing half bad for itself. Plus, most mustang fans aren't expecting a BMW/Mercedes quality interior.

 

And F-bodies were just F-bodies, sold not only as $18k 6-cylinder slugs, but $35k SLP offerings. To accomlish this task, and keep the base MSRP at levels that will continue to draw buyers, concessions have to be made.
In any case, the quality of the completely redesigned and re-engineered Mustang is supposed to be substantially improved. So I'd hedge any quality judgements until you're comparing a 2005 Mustang against a 2005/2006 GTO or Corvette. Obviously, a Mustang (even a Cobra) wasn't meant to be compared to a Lambo or Ferrari...the very thought is ridiculous.

Ford hasn't released any pricing info on the '07 'bra. Right now there is so much speculation over major features of the car that I don't think anybody can make the prediction that it'll be "$40-45,000". '05 GT pricing is going to be very close to the current cars, what additions over and above the current Cobra hardware upgrades could possibly push the MSRP $5-10k higher? I think it's more likely we'll see an '07 Cobra that has increased in price more in line with slightly over the rate of inflation from '04-'06...maybe $37-38k base with a few available options like chrome wheels, etc..
S.

 

Here's my .02 ...

It would tickle me plum purple if the next V8 Camaro was faster than the Mustang GT off the showroom floor. I have no issue with it whatsoever.
What's different about that versus what we had in 2002?

I sense the position of many in this thread is that you want the Camaro to be the fastest, or the Vette to be the fastest, or the Cobra to be the fastest, or whatever.
Know what... here's a
NEWSFLASH!!!
The fastest car doesn't guarantee sales, i.e. success!

It's purely for bragging rights - well, big deal.
Who brags on sales flops?!?!

OK, so you don't jump on a new Z28 Camaro in your 2008 Mustang GT on the street --- unless you have mods.
Truth is - you shouldn't race on the street ANYWAYS.
And that's "the rest of the story" as Paul says.
As an educated pony car fan, I'd rather see the basic V8 and even elevated V8 cars remain powerful, but docile, well-mannered, and price-conscious. But give me a workable platform, and the aftermarket to make it what I want it to be after I get it home! An autoX star - great, I'll drop some cash on the suspension and brakes, and leave the engine basically stock. A drag car - ok, I'll go gears, wheels/tires, engine mods like a blower or juice-bottle, and hardly touch the front-end suspension. Maybe a hybrid of both. As long as I can get into the car cheap, and build on it - I'm happy.
And NO Dorothy, fast does NOT come cheap from the factory.

Price DOES matter. Look at our talk about the 300C and how it has affected the car market. I know folks were dropping $33k or more for SS and WS6 cars, and they still do for Cobras, but those are the ones that were willing - what about those that weren't willing, or didn't have that much to drop? I see LOTS more GTs, LX's, and Z28's on the road with heavy mods than I do the Cobras and SS's on a daily basis.

My point is, for the same $33 or so, I could have a NICE Mustang GT new, and throw in a blower, gears, and exhaust system easily. Might even have enough left over to install some suspension upgrades or wheels/tires. So for the same $33k, I now have a car that is unique to me, the way I want it, and makes me stand out from the other "showroom models".

For those who don't want the DIY approach, there's always Roush, Saleen, and the others. They'll put together your rocketship for you - for a fee. Meanwhile, Ford is still churning out the econo-Mustang for the masses, keeping the car alive, cheap, well, and PROFITABLE for Ford.

SO in closing...
May your Camaro be the fastest thing on the street from the showroom - if that's what you want!
But think about it - is that REALLY what you want... again?

I'd rather let the tuners produce the warrior cars, and let the OEM carmaker deliver a sound platform based on quality and price values. JMO.

 

What do car magazines like Car & Driver look for? Outstanding cars. Chevy only makes econoboxes these days excluding the vette and the SSR. Ground-breaking cars may not sell in large volumes, but they DO get publicity. Imagine how many young kids read magazines and drool over the cobra. When the time comes to buy a car, they quickly realize the car they want is out of their reach. So what do they do? buy the next best thing: probably a mustang GT or some other variation of the mustang. Same with SRT-10. Notice how much attention that gets at the auto show? Most of those people probably cant afford one, but are impressed by it, so they are tempted by the next best thing: a hemi ram.

FYI the vette and certainly not the SSR are not going to be on the cover of C&D every month. Imports are probably so successful because theres 6 new (and exciting) cars every month... unlike chevy which has the vette, the vette, the vette, the vette, the SSR, and all the econoboxes no one cares about. Makes you wonder why those magazines rarely have anything good to say about American cars. But, even with that reputation... have you noticed how much attention the stang has got from them?

 

I agree that the Corvette needs to move way up in performance and give the Camaro room, especially to best the M*stang itself. If the GTO has the same power as the Camaro it'll still be heavier and slower so I don't see it going after the top M*stang.