Where did you buy that? I'd like to get one!

Edit: Never mind, found it on ebay & bought it

It's nice to know GM is doing everything possible to stay afloat.

I just don't think people understand what would happen...

It won't affect just new car factories/part supplies/dealers etc. It should come as no surprise that GM has the largest classic vehicle following in the US. Just go to any classic car show that allows all makes and see how GM outnumbers all other mfgs. Where would I get the new GM Gen 1 350 crate engine I need for the 67?

What about the aftermarket industry for new cars? GM has a huge following there too... what about all those peoples jobs?

 

Great article. Thanks for posting.

Oh yeah, semi-political blanket statements... those are helpful.

If all you have to contribute to the conversation is bigotry, do it elsewhere.

 

I'm glad someone has slept through everything and just woke up thinking they have the answer.

Unions aren't the issue.

 

Great article everyone should read this.

Does anybody else feel like we need "An inconvenient truth 2.0: half the convenience, double the truth" style documentary to get the message out there that this stuff is important. I have to think that if we could spell it out to people just how important these jobs are and how much it would affect them if they were gone people would start to take action. I'm pretty good with power point so maybe I should get to work on it.

One of my fathers professors at Penn State told his class "the most important descision you will make regarding this country is not who you vote for for president , its what kind of car you drive"

Its even more important now than it was then.

 

"Bigotry?"

The reason the big 3 were uncompetitive (and as stated as such in that article), is that they had all of these agreements with the unions that gave them massive amounts of benefits FOR LIFE that had to be factored into the price of the vehicle. Yeah, there are other things like the manipulation of the value of the yen, etc . . . but even with that, they should have been playing on a more level playing field if it weren't for the unions.

Another point that wasn't mentioned in that article at all is the complete pieces of crap that the big 3 put during the 80s and 90s. Are you going to honestly sit there and try to tell me that the Cavalier and Neon were superior to the Civic, or that the Lumina was better than the Accord or Camry?

The big 3 should quit blaming everybody else and take some of the blame for themselves.

 

but but but if you don't buy domestic then people will be out of a job


that is always my favorite appeal that pops up every once and awhile, you should buy domestic because of jobs... screw the past 25+ years, they don't count.

this has been a long time coming and only the companies are to blame, not the consumer.

 

welll..............that's fine -- so when you're out of a job and you lose your home, -- just keep that thought in mind.

IT IS NOT THAT SIMPLE...............

 

Yep.

 

Are you telling me that ALL American cars are inferior?

Are you telling me that Hondas and Toyotas are bullet-proof? Cuz if you are, please help me to understand why they have service departments that are full and why people have problems with them (like the millions of sludged Toyotas...)

Are you telling me that one of my neighbors who has a Lumina (1997 to be exact) that reads over 250,000 miles and has not had anything done but maintenance is a liar?


See -- it's not quite that simple.............(and of COURSE I'm not saying that you said anything of the sort...........) (mebbe.....)

What I'd LOVE to do is find a young agressive Attorney that is willing to file a lawsuit against Consumers Reports - see- they admitted in writing that they essentially rubber stamped Toyota with 'Recommended" based on 'history'....(hmmmm......) and now they're kinda sorta realizing that Toyotas DO break and they MAY not be bulletproof...........and I think the stockholders and employees of the Domestic Three have a case................AND it makes me wonder how much of this stuff goes on to make people -- perhaps like yourself - believe stuff that may just be untrue..........

I may never change your mind - and if that's the case -- fine -- go ahead and believe whatever - -but don't be shocked that we're in a meltdown here - for many reasons.............

 

I know several people that swear by consumer reports, and getting them to realize the errors of their ways and repent is like pulling teeth. Many wont even listen to JD power awards. If I go by experience alone from the cars I've seen owned by close friends and family and my own vehicles - the most reliable brands I've seen have been Ford and GM... By a *huge* margin. Not to mention replacement parts are easy to find and cheap!

I've always had faith in GMs engineers. The lack of decision making and empowerment in the management though....

 

For the record, my family has been a GM family since my father was a child. Just a few of the cars my family has owned over the last few decades: Caprices (yeah, plural), Astro van, Grand Prix, Corvette, Cavalier, Lumina LTZ, 2500, Vibe, Express 1500 and of course a Camaro . . . and that's just since the 80s.

And we're all aware of CR's being in bed with Toyota (and I'm sure JD Power would say something about CR being the end-all-be-all of ratings), but it goes beyond Toyota. I think would be hard pressed to find anybody who would say that a 90s Deville was better car than a 5 Series or a Lexus. Or that a Cavalier was a better vehicle than a Civic. Or that an Acclaim or Stratus was better than a Accord. Or that an 88 Eldorado was superior to even a 3 Series?

As mentioned, there are other reasons and very valid points throughout the article, but to ignore that a good chunk of the reason why the big 3 are in the position they're in now is because of being burdened by the unions and because of the quality of cars they put out for 2 decades is a failure to recognize one's own faults. If they can't recognize that and accept it, and only want to return to this tired and illogical "buy American" mantra, then the sad point is, is that they'll never learn.

GM and Ford have put putting out some really great products as of late and it does bode well for the future, but let's not act like they had no bearing on the current situation.

 

Scott, if anyone actually had a case against CR, it would've already gone to court.
Also, the JD Power ratings seem to be really close to what CR says; oh the irony continues.
It's easy to be dismissive about data that doesn't say what you want it to say.
The bottom line is that, for quite a time period, in general while domestic automakers were making cars that tended to fall apart, foreign automakers were making cars that got good gas mileage and lasted longer. People who were at one time loyal domestic buyers merely started playing the numbers and buying the cheaper vehicle that had a lesser chance of falling apart on them than the slightly more expensive car that had a greater chance of falling to pieces before their payment books were empty. Domestic automakers only have themselves to blame for this lapse in quality control. They thought that people would buy whatever they put on the lot. They were wrong.

 

i really hope that kind of easily countered reasoning isn't floating around GM corporate and i REALLY hope there are not more people within GM who simply shift the blame to the consumer for wanting a superior product over the past 25+ years for why the companies are in this mess to begin with. if so, well, can you at least hold out till my warranty expires?


but since we're giving out examples... if GM was doing so well in 1997 then what happened to my parent's 2003 saturn vue that has had 3 transmissions (first went out at 24k miles, 2ed at 98k miles) and has sounded like a plastic box full of legos driving down the road since damn near new? i believe the CVT issues have been well documented on various automotive websites.

or all 3 of my f-bodies that i've had over the years having beyond crappy power window motors while a parts bin motor in the buick rivera was much stronger on a larger window?

its disconcerting to see people with relative "know" blaming the consumer for their problems.

don't ya hate that your biggest fans are your biggest critics (i don't own no civic, check the sig)

 

I'll top that Lumina. Our '89 GMC Safari had over 293,000 miles on it when we sold it in 2003. It currently still runs with over 300,000 miles without any major problems. EVER. I find it odd that some people have all these problems with their cars, yet with proper maintenance and TLC, all of our cars have lasted well past the 200,000 mile mark.

And Consumer Reports is a total load of bullcrap. I don't even pay attention to their ratings anymore.

 

The problem is that way, way too many people do. One of my salespeople was marveling the other day at how much emphasis even his 80 year old grandmother puts on buying CR recommended products...everything from tires to toasters. She won't buy a car from her own grandson because we stock mostly American used cars, and she refuses to buy American. Here is someone who's first husband was SHOT DOWN IN WWII, driving a Corolla

Anyway, I'm with Scott...DeLorenzo, while I don't always agree with him, was spot-on with this one. I wish all the Big 3 the best, and all of their employees the best. I don't want to see anyone fail. I want us all to keep our jobs, homes and cars. Here I am, in Western MA, a battleground domestics are losing horribly in, with a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep franchise. In the last 2 months, we've lost a Dodge stand-alone 15 miles from here, we're losing 2 more Dodge stand-alones about 30-40 miles from here, and a Chevy stand-alone was literally put out of business by GMAC over the course of TWO WEEKS!! Don't have $500k to give us? We don't care if you've been in business since the '50s...see ya!!

I'm scared sh!tless. I won't lie. FWIW, I bought 5 of those bumper stickers off eBay 10 minutes ago. One for my mother's Explorer (she's wanted me to find her one for awhile), one for my wife's Grand Prix, one for my Ram, one for my best friend's CTS, and one for the back window of my Z28.

Note the lack of foreign product in that lineup.