Why did GM stop making the camaros and firebirds?
If I may, let me add a bit of perspective. I have been a Mustang owner for the balance of my "musclecar life", but prior to the LS1 coming around, I had also owned a 74 Firebird and an 85 Z28. Until the LS1 hit the streets, the only other F-body I ever wanted was the 89 TTA (for obvious reasons). The L98 and LT1 cars just didn't do it for me (no offense to those that own them - it is personal preference).
With that in mind, in the summer of 98, we were looking for a car for my wife. The primary cars we looked at were the 98 Cobra and 98 T/A. We drove them on the same day, back to back. If it were up to me (on that day), I would have picked a low-option Formula they had on the lot. However, the wife fell in love with the Cobra (new 98), and we had one by that evening. I wanted to Formula for one reason - the LS1. She didn't like much of anything about the T/A - too big, felt clumsy, hard to see out of (relative to the Mustang), stuff like that.
Curiously enough, after several months, she decided she didn't want the Cobra either (gee dear, its just money). I drove it for a while, but decided to sell it as I wanted - you guessed it - an LS1.
After a few more months of looking, in Aug of 2000, I came upon a black 99 T/A with a T56, WS6 hood, a few bolt-ons, etc, etc and only 8000 miles. Got a good deal on it, and off I went - happy as a lark. At least for a while.
The car was fast (especially given its weight), didn't rattle like some said they would, was very stable, and except for a few warranty issues that I had taken care of (or at least worked on), it was reliable. The LS1 was (is) a gem of a motor, and the T56 worked great - though I'd prefer more 1st gear. It cruised quietly at speed on the highway and got really good mileage.
All that said, after a few months with it, I was ready to get out of it and go back to a Mustang. Why? Curiously enough, most of my reasons were very simliar to the reasons my wife cited for not buying one in the first place, with a few other things thrown in. Specifically, I didn't care for...
1) The seating position. Too low, too laid back. Contrary to what seems to be the style of many of the newest generation of youngsters, I like to know what is going on around me - thus I like to sit up.
2) The seating position. You fall into the car, and you climb out. In a Mustang, you get in and get out - if that makes sense. Not a big deal to some, but I didn't care for it.
3) Visibility. I've been told that I'm full of it, but after spending considerable time in both cars, the Mustang has better visibility and much less of a "blind spot" over your left shoulder. I'm a pretty cautious driver, and its pretty rare that I pull in front of folks, etc. In the 9 months I had the T/A, I almost hit someone coming up on my left three different times. Yes, I probably should have looked more/better/whatever. However, that had never happened before, and it hasn't happened since. The visibility out the F-body simply is not as good as the Mustang or most other cars.
4) The car felt "big". Even though it would hand a Mustang its butt on a silver platter around a road course or auto-X (given equal drivers...hard to find or measure), driving it around town every day, the T/A simply was not as easy to "pilot". It felt big and clumsy compared to the Mustang. Curiously enough, My 98 Cobra was only about 180 lbs less, and my 99 only about 90 lbs less than my T/A. But what a car feels like means a lot - even if it is not what is actually happening.
5) My particular car had a odor that simply would not go away. I barely remember it now, but the dealer had a TSB on it (delt with moisture in the vent system), performed the work, but still didn't get rid of the smell. It was annoying, and I realize it wasn't an issue on the vast majority of cars - but it was on mine.
6) Racing opportunities. This probably has little bearing for most buyers, but I like to drag race (as in legally). There simply isn't any real support for F-body drag racing outside of local events and the occasional get-together sponsored by one of the many websites (I've helped with a couple of them). In contrast, Mustang drivers have Fun Ford Weekend (FFW) and the National Mustang Racers Association (NMRA) as regular series to compete in - with classes for virtually any Mustang. There is also the annual World Ford Challenge, and numerous local events. This really did have a big influence on my decision - though I recognize it wouldn't influence a great deal of people.
To be perfectly honest, I would have bought a GT after selling the T/A if I had not found my current car. That's a big step-down in power - and I've been a hot-rodder for a long time - but it was worth it to me, based on what I just typed above.
FWIW...I hope a Camaro/Firebird returns, and I hope it is a damn good, affordable car. Competition improves the breed - lack of competition makes the only choice in town go stale.
With that in mind, in the summer of 98, we were looking for a car for my wife. The primary cars we looked at were the 98 Cobra and 98 T/A. We drove them on the same day, back to back. If it were up to me (on that day), I would have picked a low-option Formula they had on the lot. However, the wife fell in love with the Cobra (new 98), and we had one by that evening. I wanted to Formula for one reason - the LS1. She didn't like much of anything about the T/A - too big, felt clumsy, hard to see out of (relative to the Mustang), stuff like that.
Curiously enough, after several months, she decided she didn't want the Cobra either (gee dear, its just money). I drove it for a while, but decided to sell it as I wanted - you guessed it - an LS1.
After a few more months of looking, in Aug of 2000, I came upon a black 99 T/A with a T56, WS6 hood, a few bolt-ons, etc, etc and only 8000 miles. Got a good deal on it, and off I went - happy as a lark. At least for a while.
The car was fast (especially given its weight), didn't rattle like some said they would, was very stable, and except for a few warranty issues that I had taken care of (or at least worked on), it was reliable. The LS1 was (is) a gem of a motor, and the T56 worked great - though I'd prefer more 1st gear. It cruised quietly at speed on the highway and got really good mileage.
All that said, after a few months with it, I was ready to get out of it and go back to a Mustang. Why? Curiously enough, most of my reasons were very simliar to the reasons my wife cited for not buying one in the first place, with a few other things thrown in. Specifically, I didn't care for...
1) The seating position. Too low, too laid back. Contrary to what seems to be the style of many of the newest generation of youngsters, I like to know what is going on around me - thus I like to sit up.
2) The seating position. You fall into the car, and you climb out. In a Mustang, you get in and get out - if that makes sense. Not a big deal to some, but I didn't care for it.
3) Visibility. I've been told that I'm full of it, but after spending considerable time in both cars, the Mustang has better visibility and much less of a "blind spot" over your left shoulder. I'm a pretty cautious driver, and its pretty rare that I pull in front of folks, etc. In the 9 months I had the T/A, I almost hit someone coming up on my left three different times. Yes, I probably should have looked more/better/whatever. However, that had never happened before, and it hasn't happened since. The visibility out the F-body simply is not as good as the Mustang or most other cars.
4) The car felt "big". Even though it would hand a Mustang its butt on a silver platter around a road course or auto-X (given equal drivers...hard to find or measure), driving it around town every day, the T/A simply was not as easy to "pilot". It felt big and clumsy compared to the Mustang. Curiously enough, My 98 Cobra was only about 180 lbs less, and my 99 only about 90 lbs less than my T/A. But what a car feels like means a lot - even if it is not what is actually happening.
5) My particular car had a odor that simply would not go away. I barely remember it now, but the dealer had a TSB on it (delt with moisture in the vent system), performed the work, but still didn't get rid of the smell. It was annoying, and I realize it wasn't an issue on the vast majority of cars - but it was on mine.
6) Racing opportunities. This probably has little bearing for most buyers, but I like to drag race (as in legally). There simply isn't any real support for F-body drag racing outside of local events and the occasional get-together sponsored by one of the many websites (I've helped with a couple of them). In contrast, Mustang drivers have Fun Ford Weekend (FFW) and the National Mustang Racers Association (NMRA) as regular series to compete in - with classes for virtually any Mustang. There is also the annual World Ford Challenge, and numerous local events. This really did have a big influence on my decision - though I recognize it wouldn't influence a great deal of people.
To be perfectly honest, I would have bought a GT after selling the T/A if I had not found my current car. That's a big step-down in power - and I've been a hot-rodder for a long time - but it was worth it to me, based on what I just typed above.
FWIW...I hope a Camaro/Firebird returns, and I hope it is a damn good, affordable car. Competition improves the breed - lack of competition makes the only choice in town go stale.
Originally posted by Red Planet
Don't forget that GM also offered a whole bunch of Coupes.....while Ford had four coupes available (Mustang, Cougar, ZX2 and Focus) Chevy had four (Camaro, Corvette, Monte, and Cavalier...plus cousin Firebird, Grand Am, Grand Prix, then Alero, Saturn.........GM outsold Ford by 3 to 1 in the coupe market in 2001........the problem in some respects was the number of choices........buyer behavoir reports showed that over half of Mustang buyers would not have considered Camaro/Firebird as their second choice.......rather, they would have chosen a Grand Am or a Cavalier Z24.........
One other note........the Camaro and Firebird did NOT always make money........and that's one of the biggest reasons for the cars going on (I'm not allowed to say the H word..........)
Don't forget that GM also offered a whole bunch of Coupes.....while Ford had four coupes available (Mustang, Cougar, ZX2 and Focus) Chevy had four (Camaro, Corvette, Monte, and Cavalier...plus cousin Firebird, Grand Am, Grand Prix, then Alero, Saturn.........GM outsold Ford by 3 to 1 in the coupe market in 2001........the problem in some respects was the number of choices........buyer behavoir reports showed that over half of Mustang buyers would not have considered Camaro/Firebird as their second choice.......rather, they would have chosen a Grand Am or a Cavalier Z24.........
One other note........the Camaro and Firebird did NOT always make money........and that's one of the biggest reasons for the cars going on (I'm not allowed to say the H word..........)
LOL. Ya, I bet. 
You know, I should have made brief mention of the things I DID like about the car, including the T-tops (miss the hell out of them), the steering-mounted radio controls, the big OD gear, the fact that it did not rattle and feel like it was going to fall apart, and of course, the engine itself.

You know, I should have made brief mention of the things I DID like about the car, including the T-tops (miss the hell out of them), the steering-mounted radio controls, the big OD gear, the fact that it did not rattle and feel like it was going to fall apart, and of course, the engine itself.
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Aug 11, 2002 11:15 PM



