Hello boys and girls, I am writing another paper. This one is asking why did GM discontinue the camaro and firebird. Any information as to where I can find facts would be helpful. Any info that you give me is helpful. Any opinions you might want to express about the subject, such as this was a mistake, will be helpful. Anything is helpful as long as it pertains to the ending of the camaro or firebird. thx.

 

It's a combination of things. Marketing and contractual problems with the plant. Don't be surprised to see the come back right in time to compete with the new mustang.

 

i doubt you'll be able to use this in your paper, but i think the answer is simple: economics. GM wasn't making enough money on the f-bodies. if they were making money hand over fist on these things, they'd still be doing it.

as far as the specific economic factors behind this, maybe someone has a link to an article somewhere that goes in-depth on this matter.

just remember, GM is a company, not our buddy. and they make decisions just like any other company: how does it effect the bottom line??

 

and just to add to what he was sayin. I think the reason that they cant sell any is because of the insane insurance costs that come with it. So its hard for any teen to get a z28/ta. So they turn to V6stangs.

 

MONEY.plant was designed to make 250k vehicles and only 70-80k were being sold a year.so it wasnt smart to keep making them there and probably not a good decision unfortunately to move it to a smaller plant.i really dont see why it didnt share space with the C5 since i read that there was space in that bowling green plant.maybe someone knows?


there might be other reasons or theories but sales was why and i really dont think more advertising wouldve saved it.there are many misconceptions about these cars that didnt help things also.

 

What I wouldn't give to write a paper like that.

I just finished writing a 15 page paper outling EVERY facet of the rubber and tire industry, and I was thinking to myself how I wish I could write about cars instead, oh well.

Price and cost of ownership basically killed these cars.

- Option-for-option, a Mustang is about $1,500 cheaper than a Camaro
- Big power = big insurance costs
- most people don't like the seating position

Also, think of how practical it would be to drive a Ferrari everyday and then a Grand Prix. Well, the Mustang is closer to the GP and the Camaro is closer to the Ferrari, so people view it as more of a performance car and see the Mustang as more of a sporty car for having fun in. That's why most people who buy V6 (and V8 in lesser numbers) Mustangs are girls.

 

Thx for the info guys....I posted a similar message once before that was a lot more of an in depth discussion, but these posts are also very helpful thx again.

Also I also want some opinions on wha everyone thinks about it. I know that GM had to do what they had to do, but any opinions?

 

My opinions: If they make a 5th gen. there should be more models. There should be something between the 200 and 305hp range to get some of the Mustang GT market. I really really really......... like the cockpit feeling of the Camaro. The doors on Camaros are pretty big making it hard to get in and out. The seats are something like two inches lower then a mustangs which also makes it harder to get in and out. No trunk, basically the Camaro has to be more practical if it's going to sell. There's a huge market that wants something pretty fast. Grand Prix GTP owners for example realize there are cars faster then them but still like having a little extra punch.

F-bodies weren't practical enough, slightly smaller doors and a third engine option are what I think would make the f-body sell again.

 

I think the big reason was that in 2003 the government required big changes in safety features. The original 4th gen was probably designed in 90-91, without these safety features designed into it. whereas the Mustang was redisigned in the mid nineties, and took these government changes due in 2003 into account when designing it.

 

if fbodies were selling making minor safety changes wouldnt have stopped GM from producing them.since sales were low im sure that was another reason to not bring it back.

ls1 fbodys were offered in the low 20s comparable to GTs and they still didnt sell.they were the best musclecar ever made for the cost and it still didnt save them.this is a fact because you give me a car of any era with that kind of performance,braking,handling,gas mileage,emissions ect.there is none.

getting in an out and comfort though i dont think its that bad was always a complaint going back at least to 3rd gens and they sold well.musclecars in general arent in demand and havent been for awhile now.


if a 5th gen. is made i have no problem with refinement as long as its still a musclecar.

 

Not an LS1 tech post.

 

Actually, I am going to move it to the 5th gen forum. Technically, it is not a 5th gen question, but there are a lot of people there that can provide a lot of insight to this since they rehash it about once a week.

 

Do some research...search the 5th gen board. You can get a good idea, but it'll be difficult to come up with a lot of sources to prove some of the reasons beyond doubt.

 

Just thought I would pop in and say GM made money on every 3rd and 4th gen they made. The basic chasis design was paid for in about 85 with the third gen and the 4th gens paid for themselves after about 95. Don't say the car didn't make money it DID. The replacement wasn't worked on at all and the car was supposed to be canned in 98. The ONLY reason it lived till 02 was thanks to guys like Scott Settlemire and Rick Wagoner, true car nuts who knew how important Camaro and Firebird are to us.

 

Points to reconsider:

1. GM was still making a profit on every f-body made, so money isn't an issue.

2. For the million-and first-time:
THE F-BODY WASN'T OVERPRICED, IT WASN'T DOOMED BY INSURENCE COSTS, AND....please get this embeded into the old noggin.... Z28s & T/As WERE NEVER, NEVER, EVER TARGETED TO TEENS!!!!
If someone couldn't afford a base $23,000 Z28, why be a irritating whiner, and say it was too expensive when I see plenty of young people driving cars that cost alot more! Nothing grates my nerves more!

3. And Finally, lowering the power rating would not affect sales or it's competition to the Mustang GT.

"Gee... let's see. The Mustang has an upright stance, it's easier to get in & out of, it has a ton of books magazines, and loads of aftermarket support, Camaro & Firebird hasn't had a re-design in 10 years, while Mustang was changed twice! Duh.... that means F-bodies failed because they were too powerful! Let's put in a weaker engine!" You work for Ford, don't you??

Again, give it a rest. Insurence isn't rated by horsepower, it's rated by claims. It's been gone over before. I can come up with at least 2 companies where Mustang GTs cost more to insure than Z28s.

The top 10 reasons why F-bodies died (pretty much in order):

10. The Ford Mustang. It's sales exploded after it's 1999 redesign, yet the overall market collaspsed to the point Mustang ended up with about half the market (this includes all the imports as well as the F-bod).

9. The sudden drop in sales in the sport coupe market around 98 (the f-bodies remained the 2nd best selling sport coupes in the US...just shows you how bad things were).

8. SUVs & the profit machines they became. GM stopped spending money on cars & diverted it to trucks.

7. No advertizing.

6. The F-body had a serious shortage of friends in high places.

5. The only way of pulling out of a highly restrictive contract at Ste. Therese, was if f-body sales dropped. Best way to start that happening? Stop advertizing it.

4. The idea of using the Monaro as the basis for a new Camaro was vetoed, as was basing Camaro on a FWD chassis.

3. Safety standards that would have mandated major changes in the roofline which would have required alot of money, which GM didn't want to invest in a chassis developed 20 years prior.

2. No replacement chassis available to base a new one on.

1. No redesign for 10 years!