jg95z28

That link on cardomain has been alterted to look more like a Camaro.

Here's why I think it could also be a Chevelle...

SS Nose
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2002/08/...1524257_pv.jpg

71 Chevelle nose
http://www.gmsports.com/Week44c/P01.jpg

SS Tail
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/WKA/2002/08/...1524224_pv.jpg

71 Chevelle tail
http://www.gmsports.com/Week44c/P04.jpg

Pretty close IMO.

Mervz

Not as close as a 1970's camaro.. take a look at this..

http://www.gm-cars.com/Mervz/camarocompare.jpg

IZ28

Its close to both but not as much as the Camaro.

Mervz, if the Camaro is not a high volume affordable car, it is not a Camaro.

Mervz

What do you define as low volume? The 4th gen was designed, and the St. T plant was made to handle over 100k+ car volume.

When the 4th gen dipped below 50k cars, the economics started to sour. If you think 50k is not high enough volume, then your insulting every 4th gen owner out there.

BTW: 4th gen and C4 vette owner here...

DaxsZ28

Does the 5th gen have to be high volume to be affordable if it is going to share so much with other cars? (Which I think it will BTW)

Mervz

Thats what i'm trying to say. It does not.

JEDCamino

I think it looks good. I don't really care what they call it, but if it becomes the next Camaro it certainly must lose a set of doors. And yes, the front and rear are very remeniscent of both a '70 Camaro and a '71 Chevelle. The rear reminds me more of the Chevelle, but the front looks more Camaro to me. The overall shape is much more '70 Camaro, though.

IZ28

To me low volume would be what the GTO is expected to sell, medium would be around 50,000, and high volume would be about 100,000 and more. And no I don't think 50,000 is enough, not when a M*****g, that has never been half the car an F-Body is all around, is selling 150,000-200,000 when it was getting beat out years before. The F-Body was never a "mid" volume car until the 4th Gen. It should outsell the M*****g. You can't only be competitive in 1 area, you should want to win all of them.

Mervz

Here's what your missing.
Mustang sales are VERY misleading.
Approx 60% of Mustang sales are V6's. Over 40% of all Mustangs are fleet (rental car) sales!

When GM did a study on Mustang owners and asked them what their compareable GM vehicle would be, most DID NOT choose Camaro! The fact is, that to most, Mustang is just a "sporty" car. Ford doesn't offer the amount of options that GM does. So, while the majority of Camaro owners would choose Mustang in a Ford only world, many Mustang owners wouldn't choose Camaro in a GM only world. Simply becuase they are not buying performance. Just an inexpensive V6 "sporty" car.

Thats why i don't think that comparing Camaro Vs Mustang sales is relivent. Its apples to oranges.

Johnny Hunkins

I don't think the Mustang's sales figures are misleading at all. They get to have their cake and eat it too. They sell enough 6-cylinder cars to pay for the--what is it now--three or four graduated performance versions? For the same reason they also take an easy ride on the CAFE hit too.

I think the economic model of the Mustang is anything but misleading. Heck, we can't even ride their @ss about performance either!

DaxsZ28

Well, we can't ride them about performace because we don't have a car anymore.

Mervz

SO obviously giving away 40% of a vehicles production to a company that you own (Hertz), and then having people try to compare to Camaro isn't even a little weird? Fact is that MOST people don't know that Mustang sales are only where they are at because of fleet sales.

I'm not saying its not a great buisness case, but when you try to compare to Camaro, yes it is very much misleading.

Johnny Hunkins

The Hertz rental fleet deal is a sweet one. Ford can't count the money fast enough. Do you travel much on business? Have you ever tried to rent a Mustang at the counter, even a V6? I have. Not only do Mustangs command a big premium over a standard car, but they're rarely in stock at the airport.

But it doesn't end there. When the used rentals go to auction, they command a high residual value. Ford literally sells the same car twice, making twice the money.

Like I said, a sweet deal. G'head, roll your eyes again.

IZ28

Yup. And still to me it doesn't mean much because alot more are buying the cars for themselves over rentals. It stinks to see M*****gs everywhere now they way you saw Third Gens everywhere when they were new. You still see alot today even, but not as many 5.0's, its like they completely switched. They are practically the IT car now the way the F-Body was. I barely see 4ths on the road, but new M*****gs are all over, and they are attainable and appealing to alot of younger people which is the way the Camaro needs to be again if it is to succeed.

I am all GM, but I'm so tired of all of their excuses for pretty much everything.

Mervz

I totally agree with you that from a buisness standpoint, its a GREAT deal. But from a pure enthusiast standpoint when a mustang owner says "My car outsold your car by XX amount", it really is misleading. Ford is selling the vehicles to themselves. Scott will stand behind me on this one. We've discussed it on the phone more than a few times.

And, no, i don't rent Fords I only deal with National and Enterprise. GM only.

And, really, they don't sell the same vehicle twice. The budget sheets balance, because the "expense" to buy the car on Hertz side counteracts the "sale" on Fords side. They make more money via rental fees, but thats really it. You'd have to add up the rental fees and the final auction sale to determine the "real" selling price.