Dodge's market position has traditionally been near the bottom, so it is actually the Viper that is the brand extension, not the Neon. Like I said in my previous post, that's okay because it is extending the brand upwards, not downwards. Customers don't mind seeing their brand go upscale because if anything, it casts a better light on their purchase when they buy the cheaper model.

 

I already see a couple of dozen 3-series a day. What is the non ///M 3-series? A somewhat sporty econo-car right? The lower-series BMW's are already mainstream. A 2003 3-series had a base price of around 27k. The new 04 3-series starts at 30k. That's not that much more expensive than this mentioned BMW which will be starting at around mid 20's. I'm sure a well optioned version will go well into 30k's.

I doubt their image would be tarnished. BMW will always be BMW to the general public. This isn't some company whose on revival mode, and/or who's trying to make a name for themselves. They've already made a name for themselves. BMW's already on top, and it's going to take a lot more than a 25k car to bring their image down.

I don't think Porsches image has sunk just because they have a more affordable boxter in their lineup. That's my point. This is supposed to be the entry level car. There are/will be 5 other series of BMW's above it (3,4,5,6,7-series). A new 4 and 6 series (M versions as well) should hit streets real soon. That's 2 more upscale models.

I personally am not crazy about the idea, but i'm not going to hold it against them nor do i look at the BMW line as being any "lesser".

 

i think everyone's missing the point. the 1 series is likely going to flop here. the original thread title has it backwards. if you think about it like you were in a position to make this decision then you see why. if you have 18-25k in your budget set aside for a new car what would drive you to buy a subcompact BMW over a WRX for example or the multitude of other vehicles like minivans, trucks or cute utes. not eveyone is out shopping for a car.

the only people who are going to go for that Bimmer are mostely those who MUST HAVE a 3 series but can't hang with the payments. there aren't that many people with limited budgets willing to blow their cash for just brand name alone. everyone's looking for value.

on the other hand those who have decent funds won't be looking so low down the line in the first place. so the 1 series, unless its priced down as low as $15k or under will miss all of its target buyers. and even then, there is an enourmous used car market in that price segment.

small cars sell really well in Europe because of political and economic conditions unique to that continent but they don't work here unless they're low budget beaters. Honda and more recently Hyundai are proof of that. Since a BMW, no matter how small will never be positioned as a beater here (but neither is it positioned like that anywhere else it sells including Europe, that's why the whole "watering down the brand" argument is BS. its just that their ideas of performance and luxury are different from those here) it will never do well here. but they keep trying anyway because they don't get us. on the flip side we don't get them much either when our car makers try to sell cars in Europe, but they keep trying anyway too. the exception here is Japan. They have figured out both our and Europe's differences well. That's part of the reason why they've done so well.

Thus different Accords for the two continents for exmaple. NA Accord is unique to this continent and arguably holds more value. its big, comfortable, powerful (V6), and reletively inexpensive. the European Accord on the other hand costs the same but is lacking in all the things we value our Accord for. that's why it only works as an upmarket Acura with much more lavish luxury appointments than you'll ever see on a typical European Accord costing the same money.

anyway, i didn't really even mean to write this much...

 

I don’t expect everyone to buy a 1-series or a car. The segment the 1-series expects to debut in (Accord/camry, etc...) is a HUGE market. Sure, there are other options, but it’s a level playing field and BMW is one of the contending players.

Why would they consider it? Ohhh I don’t know….Name, reputation, level of sophistication, looks, etc... that has come to be accepted from BMW. What ever the reason is, people will see something in it. I see BMW as a maker of quality, sophisticated, refined cars, so I expect this 1-series to be a quality, refined, and somewhat of sophisticated vehicle for its price. Maybe I want something more refined than a WRX. Maybe I don’t like the WRX’s styling. Maybe I don’t want a soccer-mom’ish minivan, or a gas-guzzling truck, or some FWD car. Maybe I want a sporty, refined, 6cyl powered RWD car at a fairly affordable price. For its price what other RWD 6cyl Luxo sedan is the BMW competing against? None that come to mind. They’re all FWD. So there’s one thing that separates it from the rest of the pack.

I think it’ll do all right.

So you’re saying the only people that go for 3-seriess are mostly those who MUST have a 5 series, but can’t hang with the payments? I disagree with you once again. This is a different market than the one the 3-series is competing in, just as the 3-series is competing in a different market than the 5 series.

I don’t think 15k and under is its intended target market. It’s a 6cyl RWD BMW, not a 4 banger Fwd hyundi. They’ve set their sights on the v6 accord/camary’s/jetta’s which all have base prices somewhere in the lower to mid 20’s.

Who knows? this 1-series might be a run-away success.

 

oh, the 1 series will find some buyers. but we'll just have to see if there are enough of them willing to shell out the cash for it. i was mainly going by past performance. if you look at the C230 hatch, for example, its hardely selling. the old 323i hatch was a bastard child too. they're both 4-bangers, true. but they're not THAT far down from the new 1 in performance. especially the C230 which, if i remember correctly, is supercharged, making 200hp. also the typical buyer isn't going to be looking at 'FWD' vs 'RWD'. when my sister bought her jetta, she could care less. she liked how it looked and how it had most of what she wanted and that it had decent space and price. i couldn't even get her to look at a 1.8T because it just wasn't important to her. the base 112hp engine was already more than adequate. also, many typical buyers are shopping a price range looking for best value, where the typical enthusiast has a pretty solid idea of what he wants down to the last detail before they even go looking for deals. but anyway, as they say in the securities business, "past performance does not guarantee future success" (or in this case failure).

as far as the 3 series, its the bread and butter for BMW here in the states (and probably elsewhere). it has the most "street cred" for them. those set on a 3 probably wouldn't suddenly go to a 5 or a 7 if they got more money. they aren't looking for the same things a 5 or a 7 buyer would be looking for. the 1 on the other hand is brand new, and if given the chance would be easily passed up for a 3 because for the most part only a few will be set on a 1 to begin with. so my point was that many of its buyer will be settling for it over a 3.

 

I can't speak for other places here in the US, but the BMW 323i hatch actually sells very well out here in Cali.

 

I think the small mercedes hatchback and BMW hatchback (discontinued) do scream "I wanted a BMW/Benz but couldn't swing the payments" because these are so clearly watered down versions of the C-class or 3 Series cars. With a completely different car not based directly off of other models, that message may not be nearly as strong.

I do think there is a market for premium small cars, though. They sell lots of Minis, Volkswagens and smaller Acuras. This maket is even wider considering that none of the domestics really offer these types of cars.

 

The base 3-series engine is a 184hp I-6. I think this engine will be available in the 1-series as well.

From the sound of it, this 1-series won’t be a hatch nor will it have a 4 banger. In fact, the article points out how it’ll share 40% of its parts with the 3-series. I don’t see too many similarities between old 3-series hatch and the new 1–series. There was nothing really appealing about the 3-series hatch and it was the bastard step-child in the lineup. If BMW can make the new 1-series appealing/attractive, then that won’t be a problem.

Your sister probably isn’t a discriminating buyer when it comes to engine and drive wheel choice. It’s all in what the person wants. Who knows, the 1-series may have something going for it.

I say it as a whole different market. A lot of cars have more luxurious twins. A lot of people don’t pass up accord v6 coupes for an Acura CL v6. How about camry’s and Lexus ES300’s? I see the new 1-series as attracting NEW buyers who’d have otherwise gone with a Maxima, Accord, Jetta, Taurus, Impala, and Camry v6’s. It wasn’t meant to compete with the 3-series.

 

how can it? they've been discontinued for at least 4-5 years. plus, i hardly see any in the bay or LA.

 

Per this week's Automotive News, the new 1-series will be a "five-door hatchback designed to look like a sedan". The drawing they show of it, a rear three-quarters shot, looks nothing like a sedan

 

Shot???? That doesn't sound too good. Hatch=sreams cheapness.

 

linx plz