how can GM be the largest seller of automobiles in the U.S. and not be profitable..in there your answer is...

That is why Pontiac was not profitable..

and want more tidbits..even back in 2002 Our own FBodyfather stated that GM LOST money on every 4th gen firebird they made. The platform sharing and cost for marketing ate into any profit and he said that they lost money and thats why there will be no 5th gen firebird this time around..

Another..GM had to share its marketing and platforms with Pontiac on everything..that itself eats profit..when you are making a world class car and having to divide that into 3's or 4's to give another division a version of that car..you water the package down and you jack up costs all over the board. Or you cut corners like what happened to the G6..

and last tell me how much profit rental fleets make an automaker?? If thats the case why is Ford giving up the cop car market on a cash maker in the CV and as they did with the Towncar...fleet vehicles do not add up to profit..most fleet vehicles are bottom of the barrel stripped down cheap models..where car companies make $$$ is in the top of the line high packaged models..something that with the high volume of fleet sales Pontiac could not ever get a profit. You do not make profit on vibe's and stripped down G6's..you make it on high end G8's..GMC is a higher profit as most of its models are premium truck sales. Buick is that entry level luxury that had options built into the price..

The problem is even if they kept Pontiac..they are still competing with themselves..GM today has no room for Pontiac..even as a nitch brand..Pontiac needed entry level vehicles like the G5 and G6 to offer...hurting the sales and profit of Chevy and the Cobalt and the Malibu since now it has to share it with Pontiac and marketing another 2 cars.
I could go down the list of the other Pontiac vehicles but its been said aleady..the only car Pontiac had as its own here was the G8..and for some time it was competing with the Grand Prix..and that too was competing with the Chevy and Buick. But I think most here get the picture..

that is your answer..GM the largest volume seller of cars in the U.S. not making a profit..means Pontiac was part of not making that profit because of the division it has.

Now I agree if GM put the money it did in trying to revive Saturn..then yes I do see Pontiac as part of this new GM...

just to much to little to late..its not about volume its about what you offer..and Pontiac as a brand had almost nothing to offer that the rest of GM already had.

 

Anyone who has been associated with the Pontiac brand knows that this was a difficult decision. Pontiac has had a rich and storied history, but unfortunately, despite the efforts of all concerned, the brand has been unprofitable over the past several years.

http://www.pontiac.com/owners/pontia...ued-statement/

But Susan Garontakos, a G.M. spokeswoman, responds with a sobering perspective. The Pontiac line has been unprofitable for several years, she says. G.M. is trying to develop a survival plan under the government’s deadline. Plants are closing and people are losing their jobs — including her son-in-law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/04/us/04land.html

 

Well..let's look at this objectively. First off..GM itself is not profitable...otherwise it would not have went bankrupt. Going a step further, if you take trucks out the equation, I am willing to bet both Chevy, and GM as a whole have not been profitable for 10 years based soley on the cars they sell.

Pontiac itself was not profitable because it is a car only line..and quite simply..GM has not sold cars profitably. Pontiac is dead because GM simply did not have the money to fix it..and they have known it for a while. They had to choose between Pontiac and Buick..and Buick won because it was profitable in China..and had a captive market here. While Pontiac was given great niche cars, it's bread and butter cars like G6, G5 and last gen Grand Prix were crap. I honestly think thart Pontiac was basically given the 4th Gen F-body treatment. Where basically, GM did not have the money to fix it..so they strangled it of decent product to get the sales volumes down to where they could justify pulling the plug. I can think of no other reason there was no 4 door Delta car or FWD Grand Prix replacement.

 

formula79 - I agree. GM has many product lines which are not profitable. I have even heard it said that the Cadillac CTS isn't making any money, and I don't think anyone would disagree that it isn't one of GM's winners.

The problem with Pontiac was not so much the past, but the future. Henderson stated flat out that they couldn't come up with an effective business plan for Pontiac. GM does not have a lot of money to invest in RWD products, and the record shows people weren't buying them from Pontiac anyway. The only conceivable way I could see Pontiac surviving would be mildly rebadged Daewoos, which of course would make nobody happy.

 

As far as my FOIA comment goes - I said it to rile you guys up because it's easy to do when I say something apparently.

At anyrate - GM as a whole as in trouble yes, but I'm willing to bet Pontiac was one of the "better losers" compared to what the company kept.

That's all.

 

If I thought I could collect on that bet, I'd take it!

 

Pontiac was unprofitable because GM made it so. GM suffocated Pontiac since the 70's. Delorean wanted a Corvette like Firebird, Pontiac HAD to share the F-body platform. When Pontiac got the Fiero, GM killed it for fear of lost sales of the Vette. Gm made pretty sure since the 70's Pontiac would never overshadow Chevrolet. GM wasted money on Saturn that could hae been used across their entire line, not just at Pontiac. GM CHOSE not to differentiate the brands, Unlike Volkswagen Auto Group or Toyota. The Brand was mismanaged and thats why it failed. So as the story of G.M.

 

As would I. But all I'd get to hear is more of how right he is, when he's clearly wrong.

 

So you do this to rile people up....start a thread on what you think to get people all ticked off at you..gives good credibility to your own site you link to on here and the people that are there...

time and again the question you ask is responded to in thought inspired meaningful and facts to back them up..yet when the same question is asked of you tp present yours..you twist and turn your same ideas into new wordings..with small or nothing added..

and Pontiac a better loser is not anything good in a company trying to turn things around...

I am saying again that I love Pontiac..heck got one myself..but as many here like myself know why it is gone. And that is better than being as you put it "loser"

So by his own admitance and ignorance this post is just a bunch of BS...

 

and Josh its not like I didnt like going to your site to read what is posted and thoughts there..but doing it here in the manner you are..maybe you should just leave it on your site..

 

This is the sad truth.

 

Going back to the Aug 2008 sales numbers, you would see that Pontiac had a 38.3% DROP. One of the biggest for GM that month. So, this Aug, they come back a little bit. Big deal.

One month means nothing. Lets look at this since the beginning of year and see how those differences look.

January -60.5
February -40.7
March -30.8
April -54.9
May -52.9
June -16.4
July -13.2

Yeah, Pontiac isn't exactly expanding.