This isn't what you're getting. The dealers bitched, moaned, bitched moaned, and bitched and moaned some more because they didn't have a car that replaced the Pontiac Sunfire. They got the Pontiac G5.

Pontiac dealers knew they weren't in line for a small car yet agreed to the B-P-G channel anyway because they "never thought IT would happen." What's IT? Bankruptcy.

Pontiac dealers bitched and moaned that they didn't have a 'small car' to compete when gas prices were $4.00 a gallon (but never before...interesting eh?)....GM gave in and gave them the G3.

Pontiac dealers ruined the brand because they wanted volume and $$$$. They didn't look long term - they tried to suck all the cash they could have with small cars which is something Pontiac is not.



On the same token Pontiac dealers are GMC dealers. Remember when the Chevy Colorado came out there was to be no GMC equivalent? That' was done by design. They didn't want GMC to have a small pick-up truck because it didn't fit.

Guess what? GMC and Pontiac dealers (remember - they are one in the same) BITCHED AND MOANED until they got their way. The half baked, luke warm Canyon.

Neither the Colorado or Canyon have been revamped since - there's a reason for that.

Oh and by the way...Pontiac DID have a very exciting car coming down the pipeline. An electric car from Holden that wasn't about "MPG" but was about PERFORMANCE.

Sucks that we won't see it now.

 

Newsflash..I know the facts..read the same things you have..yet somehow your reading something totally different than what the rest get..
and no I do not have to argue any of these meaningless points that you think we all dont know and yet present them in a manner that fits your argument..whatever man....Pontiac is gone..blame anyone you want..so I will not argue anything since Pontiac will not be back..I win...

and by the way I own a Pontiac..and am proud to drive it..

 

I have my pontiac, and like it...


honestly I get compliments and people ask me what kind of car it is because they like how it look. ( I debadged mine) Mind you coming form the college age crowd, people usually in VWs, Mazda 6s, Civics, nissans, etc... not reall "performance" cars but not boring cookie cutter Toyota style cars. Oddly they showed much more interest from the common college kid then from I ever got in F-bodies. Granted when I found a fan of the Camaro, they really loved it and talked about it, not just say a quick complient.

 

The whole point of a clearance sale is to get products to fly off the shelves.

 

I really hate this "blame the dealers" stick. General Motors was under no obligation to build anything for them they didn't want to. GM built the G5 to improve GM's bottom-line.

Look at it this way:
+ Pontiac's sales were in steep decline
+ Pontiac's marketing sucked
+ Pontiac as a brand had no direction whatsoever

If I owned a Pontiac franchise, I would be bitching and moaning too.

And how in the hell can you have a "mainstream" brand with no compact sedan? What genius came to that decision? Did they think Civics and Focuses would stop selling or something?

IMO, killing the Sunfire was the single most important event which lead to the death of Pontiac. (And same could be said about the Saturn Ion.)

---
MustangEater82 - I agree the G6 was a very attractive design. You can't blame the styling department for that car.

 

and while were at it GM could of saved Olds too..look at the product they had...

and while were at it PLymouth could of been saved at Chrysler..

Everything could of been saved if the coolaid people been drinking for the last almost 30 years....but it did not happen..

Where is Bob Dylan when you need him??

 

Why was the G5 only offered in 2 door anyways? I looked at them briefly but didn't want one, but the 2 door compact car is really not a big market?

Civic, Sentra, Mazda 3, Focus, hell even their own Cobalt?


Ok maybe they wanted it to be sporty, its pontiac a "performance product:, trying to be a mazda/BMW type product... I'll except that being the reason for 2 door G5s yet they never made an SS comparable version so you cannot even argue that!

 

My thoughts are that if one truly believes that Pontiac is viable, then put together a business plan, secure funding, and make an offer to GM. Then you can run it and be as wealthy as billg@microsoft.com

If you view it as too risky, then you clearly know why GM dropped Pontiac.

 

While I realize your post was tongue-in-cheek ... Pontiac would obviously never be viable as a stand alone company. But as a niche brand that could leverage most of its structural costs off a larger automaker like GM ... yeah, there should have been a way to make that work. Problem was no clear direction or identity. Having exact clones of cars produced by other divisions won't do it. Aside from the G8 (and the Vibe), what was unique about Pontiac? Pretty much every car and drivetrain could be bought at a different GM store. The G5 was particularly laughable, as Chevy got an SS but Pontiac (the "performance" brand) didn't get the LNF. If Pontiac had've stuck to producing only the most performance oriented versions of all platforms they chose to sell, and not try to compete with Chevy on every model, I think they could've had a shot.

 

What were the ONLY GM brands that survived?

...

Profitable ones.

 

I'm impressed that the original post didn't include a link to the original poster's GMsource website to back up his misguided argument that ditching Pontiac is a bad idea.

 

If you want to read about how Pontiac has always been the red headed step child when compared to Chevy.

http://www.pontiacheaven.org/about%2...c%20heaven.htm

 

I was with you up until this point.

Pontiac as a niche brand selling in niche volume doesn't sound to me like a winning formula. Pontiac's glory days were clearly when it was a volume brand - just a different volume brand than Chevy. I kind of envisioned Pontiac as GM's Mazda. Problem is, like your example with Cobalt SS, Chevrolet encroached upon Pontiac's territory and subsequently made Pontiac largely unnecessary.

It may sound dumb, but the only way Pontiac was going to be viable again was by going the eccentric route like they had with the Grand Am. Wilder styling cues even on their "mainstream" products (with significantly higher quality than those Grand Ams obviously) would have been the way I'd do it. There'd be no way you'd mistake my car with a Chevy. Unfortunately I don't think GM had the intestinal fortitude to do it, especially when they had Chevrolet which could carry the "sporty for everyone" torch if and whenever they choose.

 

I'd given thought to Pontiac's history as a mainstream brand. But times have changed ... there are literally hundreds more models of cars competing in the marketplace now than back in Pontiac's prime. GM wouldn't have room for more than one "a car for everyone" brand anymore (as recent history has proven). I would never expect Pontiac to regain the 10+% marketshare it had as a mainstream brand, but would instead prefer to sell a comfortable 4-5% without watering down their product too much.

And just to clarify, when I said "performance oriented", I don't mean every car has to have the biggest engine that will fit under the hood. I meant overall performance, including handling and fun to drive, that is appropriate for its segment. So an Aveo/G3 may not be totally out of the question, as long as it was done as nicely as a Fit (which the G3 is nowhere close to being). Basically what Mazda is doing right now ... Pontiac should have claimed that niche 15 years ago.

 

And thats exactly the problem right there . The market simply cannot facilitate all these "mainstream" brands in volume #'s . "If" Pontiac could have restructured its brand around variations of the G8 ( G8 sedan , ST , wagon and coupe ) , the solstice , and a small alpha 3 series type chassis to support a sedan and hatch , and have been able to sell a LOW but profitable pace , Pontiac could have been more viable . And definately would be deserving of its performance brand designation . Kinda sounds like that what Lutz was hoping to accomplish but could not get the ok . The only way Pontiac could have possibly been viable in TODAYS market is as a low volume brand supported by a portfolio of highly desireable niche type cars .