"We're finalizing the four-door showcar of the ATS first,"
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,024
Wifes car is a hardtop convertible.
Pro's:
with top up its like a normal car, very quiet and secure
Cons:
Has a huge butt
With the top down there's no trunk
A three piece hardtop folds up nicer, though, and the higher price point of a Caddy would allow that.
Pro's:
with top up its like a normal car, very quiet and secure
Cons:
Has a huge butt
With the top down there's no trunk
A three piece hardtop folds up nicer, though, and the higher price point of a Caddy would allow that.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Its interesting we heard not long ago that Alpha was to get major efforts on the steering, and now it seems that Alpha is 2 years away from a [showcar] and not a [concept car]. If we're lucky, that means a production version in later 2013. That could work well for GM.
The C350 tops the scales with 268hp from a 3.5L V6 and 3600lb. The G37 Sport tips in at 3640 and 328hp. The BMW 335i tips in with 300hp at 3605lb. The Merc and BMW start at 40k. The infinity Sport is $37k. That should help shed some light on pricing. Price it likely in the $32k-$38k range.
I'd bet we get the same two V6's (or very similar) offered in the CTS. Going with a V6 will over a boosted I4 will keep the center of mass farther back, which is critical to alpha. Roof height might be a smidge lower as well. Price the smaller one starting at $32k, the bigger at $34k or $35k. The bigger will snag 330hp, which will be good to compete with. If the chassis keeps in line with the competition, we're talking a 10"-12" shorter than the current CTS and likely 220lb lighter.
With the GenV launching in 2013, you could fire off an ATS-V in 2014. Compared to the BMW and Merc - the M3 with 414hp and 3726lb or the C63 AMG with 450hp at 3924lb (oof!). Who knows where an ATS-V would fall weight wise, but power would be like taking candy from a baby.
Could be a fun little bugger.
The C350 tops the scales with 268hp from a 3.5L V6 and 3600lb. The G37 Sport tips in at 3640 and 328hp. The BMW 335i tips in with 300hp at 3605lb. The Merc and BMW start at 40k. The infinity Sport is $37k. That should help shed some light on pricing. Price it likely in the $32k-$38k range.
I'd bet we get the same two V6's (or very similar) offered in the CTS. Going with a V6 will over a boosted I4 will keep the center of mass farther back, which is critical to alpha. Roof height might be a smidge lower as well. Price the smaller one starting at $32k, the bigger at $34k or $35k. The bigger will snag 330hp, which will be good to compete with. If the chassis keeps in line with the competition, we're talking a 10"-12" shorter than the current CTS and likely 220lb lighter.
With the GenV launching in 2013, you could fire off an ATS-V in 2014. Compared to the BMW and Merc - the M3 with 414hp and 3726lb or the C63 AMG with 450hp at 3924lb (oof!). Who knows where an ATS-V would fall weight wise, but power would be like taking candy from a baby.
Could be a fun little bugger.
Nesbitt says that the V version will compete toe to toe with the M3. Let's see what we get.
Of course, if GenV + Alpha happens -----------------you KNOW what I'm REALLY waiting for.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
The current Bentleys are georgeous and high tech... but that's because of its now German parentage... and the products still appeal to the Brits unless I'm mistaken with the sales numbers.
I hope I've made more sense now.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
I'm not into convertibles myself ... so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about... but I've never been a fan of a soft tops because I've always been paranoid about the notion of some vandal putting a knife through the roof OR the car not providing enough protection in the case of an accident.
Anyways, GM are no strangers to making hardtops look good and work well (the company that specializes in hardtops is German anyway, IIRC). SSR and XLR are not compromised at all in terms of the overall look. And neither are the BMWs.
Don't mind me, though.
Anyways, GM are no strangers to making hardtops look good and work well (the company that specializes in hardtops is German anyway, IIRC). SSR and XLR are not compromised at all in terms of the overall look. And neither are the BMWs.
Don't mind me, though.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
I'm not into convertibles myself ... so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about... but I've never been a fan of a soft tops because I've always been paranoid about the notion of some vandal putting a knife through the roof OR the car not providing enough protection in the case of an accident.
Anyways, GM are no strangers to making hardtops look good and work well (the company that specializes in hardtops is German anyway, IIRC). SSR and XLR are not compromised at all in terms of the overall look. And neither are the BMWs.
Don't mind me, though.
Anyways, GM are no strangers to making hardtops look good and work well (the company that specializes in hardtops is German anyway, IIRC). SSR and XLR are not compromised at all in terms of the overall look. And neither are the BMWs.
Don't mind me, though.
The BMW isn't compromised too heavily in looks, but look what happened to the curb weight. Something like 300-400 lbs heavier than the coupe. That isn't trivial.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
2 seaters are easier than 4 seaters to package. But even so, while the XLR wasn't compromised much in looks, it was certainly compromised otherwise. How much heavier than the Vette was the XLR? 500 lbs? How much trunk space did it have, with the top up or down?
The BMW isn't compromised too heavily in looks, but look what happened to the curb weight. Something like 300-400 lbs heavier than the coupe. That isn't trivial.
The BMW isn't compromised too heavily in looks, but look what happened to the curb weight. Something like 300-400 lbs heavier than the coupe. That isn't trivial.
In any case, 300-400 lbs sounds like what a soft top would weigh over a coupe.
I know trunk space is compromised on the hardtops but is that really so much a concern for their owners? I would 'guess' not.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,801
From: South Bend , IN
Whatever it is , GM does need to attend a class in packaging where verts are concerned . Yes verts are a compomise , but GM always seems to have the absolute least storage when the top is down compared to similar cars . If I owned a solstice , sky or G6 vert , I think Id want to drive it into the nearest river the 1st time I wanted to take a weekend trip with another person and use the car for what it was made for , top down ....maybe not the g6 I suppose , due to its backseat .
Ultimately , build a sexy perfect car and it wont matter what the top is made made of . I think about how cool the last gen Audi RS4 soft tops look , I think with that car the last thing I would be saying is " damn I wish this had a folding hard top" .
Ultimately , build a sexy perfect car and it wont matter what the top is made made of . I think about how cool the last gen Audi RS4 soft tops look , I think with that car the last thing I would be saying is " damn I wish this had a folding hard top" .
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
FWIW... some disparate weights from different marques...
BMW 3-series
Audi TT:
BMW 3-series
Couple that with the fact that after years of hard work, BMW had managed to engineer a hard-top with a weight penalty the same as the soft-top's – about 200 kg – and you have the new model, known internally as E93 and to us as the 328i and 335i.
http://www.wheels.ca/Luxury/article/19822
http://www.wheels.ca/Luxury/article/19822
The hood is a traditional fabric affair, one of the key reasons why the weight penalty has been kept to a mere 35kg over the Coupe.
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews...r-1005282.html
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews...r-1005282.html
Last edited by SSbaby; Jan 28, 2010 at 06:29 PM. Reason: spelling/grammar Doh
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Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
What's more astounding is the mere 35kg weight penalty of the Audi soft top over the coupe.
I had to double read both snippets.
Last edited by SSbaby; Jan 28, 2010 at 07:05 PM.
Disciple
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,479
Now look the eyesore that all the extra panel gaps create vs. a clean soft top on a similar car.
In my case you would be guessing very wrong.
In my case you would be guessing very wrong.