Funny you should mention that. Who knows, the Cobra idea just may be a possibility if Ford decides to kill off the GT after 2007. I took this off the Edmunds interview of the GT (GT40) team.

Hopefully Ford is listning to these guys. If they could create something like a modern day Cobra, give it a 500-600hp v8 or even v10 and keep the weight under 3000lbs, and the price under 100k, i think they'd have a winner. Have a 4XX option with a price closer to the c6's and you might have a nice corvette competitor. I'd like that idea.

 

No disrespect whatsoever intended to any Corvette - especially the latest models, but I too think Ford would be better off to let the Shelby name go after the top-level Vettes - not the SVT Cobra. Send the SVT Cobra out after the base C6 only, and concentrate on performance/dollar.

Shelby could market an SC Cobra for equal or less $ than the Z06 I feel sure. (Now whether they will or not is a different story... "what the market will bear" when it comes to his name on a car borders on lunacy IMO.)

Think about it, very minimal technology (there's like 4 computers in the Vette?!?!), only the basic creature comforts (like supportive seats and ergonomic issues, no fluff and stuff like mega stereos, hud, electronic tire pressure monitors, etc), and pure raw power.

An aluminum/carbon-fiber AC body could come in WAY, and I mean WAY under 3000lbs with that new V10 as a powerplant. Talk about setting some new land speed records...
Imagine the 0-100-0 runs in a 2500-2700lb SC Cobra with 650hp/600tq and wide Drag Radials, 4-wheel discs (maybe anti-lock but I'm not too sure yet), and a modern tubular suspension with Aluminum or even Titanium upper and lower control arms, coil-overs, etc...
And you KNOW that car will handle a road course too...
fgaouyjfgyuoyfgop*&^twf$chjjjjjjjjj - sorry, I just had an excitement-seizure, I'm OK now.

Anyways, I definitely hold more hope for this V-10 thing to happen in an exotic unit than in any kind of Ford-assembly-line-built, mass-produced version.
The other thing about the Shelby side is, they could use the 427ci version of the V10, and keep the "427 Cobra" name to differentiate from the SVT Cobra to boot!

 

How does a limited production aluminum/carbon fiber/titanium chassis and suspension car cost anywhere near what the Z06 is coming in at, $55K-$60K?

The Shelby/AC Cobra you just described would cost over $100K again. Who the hell wants that from Ford? Not me.

The Ford GT is enough. It time for the Mustang for ramp up through the powerplant range.

Let the top Ford product be a $55K Shelby 351 SC 5.8L V10 Mustang, after the GT is discontinued. It would destroy a Z06 and probably handle the blue eggsandham.

 

It time for the Mustang for ramp up through the powerplant range.


I do not disagree with you at all on that note.However I would like to see Ford do it with a V-8 not a V-10.That is just my opinion though.

James

 

Sorry if I was unclear...
I don't want the target of a 650hp/600tq specialty car to be the 500hp Z06 - It's the "dlue devil" or "blue eggsandham" or whatever concept this new killer-vette will be. That's why I clarified my statement about the SVT going after the "base Vette", and the V10/Shelby/Whatever Dreamcar going after the "top-level Vettes". I DID write that correctly I believe.

And we are speculating that this upcoming "blue devil" will breach the $100k mark - that leaves a TON of room for Ford/Shelby to work within IMO. IF Factory Five can offer a kit capable of 500hp, (you build it) for $12k plus your drivetrain.... I KNOW Ford/Shelby can produce a car for under $100k. So where's the price discrepancy at the top models - putting a $100k car against a $100k car sounds like a level play to me?

I too want to see the Mustang a strong player - even forerunner - in the pack for a while, it's our turn IMO, but I DON'T WANT to see Ford move the entire Mustang lineup so far up in power that the girls, daddy's, and self-supporting college-aged kids can't afford them, or don't want to buy them anymore. Camaro Z28's and T/A's have already been there and done that. Let's differentiate the super-performing Mustang-based units from the average Mustang that sells 200k units/year, and keep both sides happy, whaddayasay?

 

You can give a Mustang 1000 horses and it still wouldn't compete with a base c6 vette. You need a 2 seater, a fairly light chassis/body, and so on. A mustang cannot offer that. To me, the mustang will always be a pony car. In order for it to become a true sports car, it has to really deviate from the mustang lineage. I love the mustang, but that tie/relation with the rest of the lineup will always come off as a handicap to me. That is why i think an all-new, more upscale, and more performance oriented car like the Cobra would make a nice addition. The GT is nice, but something a little more affordable would be nice.

And yes, a bare, no frills, ***** to the wall super Cobra could be priced under 100k. Offer a cheaper more docile and luxurious 400hp version if you have to, to spread the cost around. If you mass produce it like chevy does the corvette, then a super Cobra could theoretically be offered for under 100k i think.

 

That said, when is a Mustang not a Mustang anymore?

Thank you for bringing an ounce of sanity to this thread RE5.0! No offense, and I think I may even tread into "sounding like PacerX" territory here, but stating that future Mustangs will "lay waste" to C6 Z06s like it's a foregone conclusion makes me giggle. I'm waiting to see what both sides are bringing to the party. Until then, speculate all you'd like about 650 HP Shelby Mustangs that pull 1.2 G's on the skidpad while weighing 2800 pounds for under $50,000.

 

The one thing some people forget is that the 427 Cobra was a convertable. When the coupe came out for compitition, Shelby droped the 427 in favor of the 289. I do not see a Shelby Cobra being produced and sold under the Ford name seeing that it was Shelby that initiated the relation. It is more likely that the GT series of Shelby Mustangs will return. I see the Ford GT staying a long time and being a very competitive force against the Corvette. The only way another Cobra will be produced is at the hands of Shelby and at his plant. The only relation the two had on the Cobra was the motor. The GT40 was a different story which is why I don't see it going away.

Like I said, I see a GT500 Mustang with either a 5.4 S/C or a 351 V10, the first seems more likely, before any Cobra is produced. If you think about it, the GT40 and Cobra would have to share the same market.

 

Building a $100K AC Cobra does 2 things, both of them bad IMO.

1) It detracts from the Ford GT effort. Instead of building a "budget" supercar like the blue eggs&ham, why not simply keep jacking the performance of the GT by putting a SC 5.8 V10 in it? Trust me, the rich folk don't NEED a $50K cheaper car to convince them to buy it. The GT is the best value on the planet.

2) It adds another car in way of Mustang getting access to the best powerplants available. Now the Stang team would have to NOT step on the toes of 2 supercars instead of one. Look at all the bitching going in here because people can't come to terms with the camaro playing second fiddle to the vette(and now the GTO).

Why would a $55K 650hp Shelby 351 affect the pricing and availablity of the base V6 and mustang GTs?




No speculation necessary when simple math is available.

Theoretical Shelby SC V10 650hp
3700lbs(assume a pig)/650hp = 5.69lbs/hp

Theoretical Z06 500hp
2900(this is optimistic)/500 = 5.8lbs/hp

And this bad boy would be a pulley change away from having blue eggs&ham for breakfast every day.

I especially like the part about under $50K. Since the current Z06 is 52+change.

 

Again, why is it assumed that the C6 Z06 HP levels will stay stagnant, especially if this, as you said--key word here--Theoretical 650 HP V10 Mustang is produced?

We shall see.

 

Am I the only American V8 purist that doesn't think a V10 belongs in an American sports car? Back when Viper was being marketed as the "all-american sports car", I was saying "Give me a break, it's got a V10 in it."

Corvette is doing it the right way. Boring out and stroking a V8 to get their power. Of course, I'd expect nothing less from the American Icon that is Corvette. I guess Ford doesn't have the ***** to do that.

 

All his talk of horsepower is depresing me. You guys are throwing the $50k tag around like its peanuts. A $50,000 car financed at 5 years and lets assume 6% will cost $966 month.

I dont see a big market for $50k+ Mustangs. I know what my wife and most people I know woud say. "If I'm going to pay $50k for a car, I'll just get a vette."

 

I just have to say one thing to say about the new V10 Mustang. If that new mustang comes out and GM is serious about bringing back the Camaro for 2007, think about what GM's gonna do to meet or beat this new 'Stang. Hmmmmm...... lets think about this. What can they do to beat this new 'Stang? Well they could take the LS1/LS6 and super/turbo it or..... they are already developing a 500 h.p. V8 for the Corvette.......or you know there also thinking about making a 650h.p. V8 for the Corvette to. Plus you know maybe they'll make a welcome back/new gen special edition like the few 93 ZL1 Camaro's with the 572 cubic incher . Think of all the possibilities
Michael

 

These are just hp games I'm throwing around. Don't take any of this seriously. The 500hp Z06 is close to fact just like the 500hp Cobra. The Shelby stangs and ZL1 are all theoretical. It's simply interesting what a SC 351 V10 could do. There are real world examples of modded Z06s and '03 Cobra to be able to estimate from.

One fella has a 600rwhp '03 running 10.8@135, so I'd estimate a Shelby 351 would run similarly.

There are Z06's w/ SC, heads and cam running similar times.

As it is, the new Z06 will rip anything this side of the Ford GT a new one.


I suppose. Personally I don't have a problem with V10s except the price tag attached.



Yeah, but there's plenty of stangs down the ladder. The Shelby limited edition stuff is for the rich folk.

At 50K, if I'm ever in the ballgame, it'd be a tough choice between Z06 and a Shelby V10.

As it is, I'm planning on buying a $43K '05 Ford Extrusion 4x4 TD, cuz I NEED one. And Chevy refuses to put the Duramax in the Suburban 2500.



The camaro will never outperform the vette. It's the law. The current base vette at 400hp is the ceiling for any camaro. Maybe by '07 the vette will go up to 435-450hp. The camaro can move along right behind it.

Forget about Camaros competing with theoretical Shelby stangs, the Cobra will be out of its range.