My bubble ain't busted!

But your buddy has a few things wrong...

The engineers that pulled off this engine development were engineers in Ford's Powertrain Division, not Product R&D. The idea was conceived at a break table, and all of the work was done "CCP", meaning "credit card purchase". It was NOT a funded experiment by Ford, and there were no "goals" in mind except one - to see if they could cobble a performance V10 from existing stuff, not the truck V10 - plain and simple. Specifically, fitting it into an SN95 or S197 platform was not discussed until AFTER the engine was together and proven to work. It was then that the team went shopping for a "free" car to test it in.

The guys worked after hours, on their own, out of pure excitement and passion for what they were doing. No formal schedule.

They literally cut and pasted 4.6 sand casting molds to make the block for this project - it was not "laying around". They did the same with the castings for the R-model DOHC heads. They peiced together the cams and cranks, and had cam-grinding done in-house based on R-model profiles - just 4 more lobes longer. I've already commented on the cam, with the non-typical pins, and why they are so.

The '99 Mustang was actually a test mule used for R-model development of the 2000 Cobra R, not a "production reject". Hence the Cobra R hood on the car which was required for the 5.7 engine used therein previously. The Cobra hood WAS NOT required on this car for the V10 fit-up - there was plenty of room even with a regular hood, but the team liked the looks of the R hood and decided to simply leave it there. The remainder of the car was also "as-is" from the development of the Cobra R, including better springs and suspension, T56, etc. Thus making it a good candidate for the V10 experiment as well.

The Jerry-rigged ECM is the only thing not based on current production stuff. The team had to rig in dual aftermarket ECMs (5-cyls each) and make them thing that each one is running an independent 5-cyl engine. (Kind of amazing they got that to tune and work at all IMO.) Again, further proof that there was no formal program to develop this at first.

It was purely chance that led the CI rating to 351 - nothing planned. But the team members being Ford and Mustang enthusiasts couldn't pass up the opportunity to slap on some BOSS 351 stickers for sh1+s and giggles (a touch that has my undergarmentry a bit more moist than normal BTW). Those stickers are available from any good resto shop for $12 - See Here.

You are correct - this is not what will happen for the '05 Stangs - No Doubt. But the interest in what happened has reached the CEO of the company, and he was happy with what he saw. THAT'S where things get fuzzy now. With a modular tooling program, the cost of mass producing a quantity of these engines is really not that far out. When you throw in guys like Coletti and Shelby, the sky is the limit - no different than Yenko or Lingenfelter.

What blows me away is that this little pony has been cruising the streets for a year now - that's alot of testing and drive-time for something the company has NO INTEREST IN, don't you think?
The only way they kept this secret under wraps is that it was a powertrain project, instead of a Team Mustang or SVT project. We all watch SVT and Team Mustang like hawks, but don't always watch the other areas.... at least until now!
Like Shortround says,"Me no crazy Mr. Jones, me learn REAL fast!!!"

 

Well your more into this than I or my friend. He just mentioned that he saw it and asked some questions about it. Not his car or porject but it did spend some time at his building. Interstingly enough he said when the V10 Stang mule showed up do did the Ford GT's one of which had an iteresting engine/trans combo.

I simply wanted to know the plans for this car. Of which he said a longshot to be produced because of a few reasons. 1) The power although great isn't any better than whats already planned. 2) Weight and packaging, again it will fit the S197, but at a handling penalty. The new Stang has goals to handle better than the current model. They don't want it to go the other way.

Basicly Ford has a better way to make great power at less cost and less weight with slightly more packaging room. The only reason to use a V10 is just to say its 10 cylinders and N/A for novelty reasons.

But again ya never know. It coertainly wouldn't suprise me. But then again looking at these reasons it kinda would. Either way the 05-06 Stang/Cobra will have some kick **** engines and trans combo's. V10 or not....

 

All unarguable points!

I too have my doubts about this V10 making it into any common production cars - even the future Cobras, and I certainly don't want to see the upscale performance Mustangs take a dive on handling. Ford did that with the Big Block cars of '69 and '70 like the Boss 429 and 428CJ cars - they were wicked on the 1/4 or from a light on the street, but any Z28, Boss 302, or well prepped SBC/SBF would own these cars on a windy road (which is often where we drive every day - duh).

I'm just keeping the point open that Shelby is lingering in the background, as are other guys with money and resources, and if you are into exotics anyway - the V10 fits right in, especially when cost is no issue. One other thing, it needs to be re-emphasized that this V10 is making GOBS of power in a "much less than optimal" mode, and with tons of emissions in place. I think it has LOTS more potential if it were to get a thorough factory-backed ECM, feedback system, and exhaust system.

Regardless, your point(s) are well made and well-taken!

 

5.7 v10 is sweet, but i have a feeling that a sub-500hp version of the GT's blown 5.4 will become the cobra's engine. 1) it's pretty much already developed 2) 500hp would be a breeze 3) colleti has already said this engine (S/c 5.4) wasn't developed for just the GT, and that it will be used in a few other vehicles as well.

I can see a v10 "possibly" showing up in something like the mentioned Shelby or even a Cobra R. These cars would be more exclusive and $$$$. Maybe have it tuned to 550hp.

We shall see.

Btw: Is a shelby being shown at Detroit this year?

 

Beep-beep-beep-beep...

Alarm's going off pal, time to wake back up and join us here in the real world again.

Now in 2006, who knows?

Would Ford/Shelby do something like that with a "KR" or the next "Cobra R" to try and steal peeps from the '07 Camaro display...

 

hehe. I just remember reading about rumors regarding ASC working on a Sheby Mustang "concept' car. I figured they'd have this concept ready for the 2004 shows. But i figured that'd be too early. Maybe 05 or 06.

 

some more info:

http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/concept/bossv10/

 

I just noticed that a 351 V10 is only a 4.6 with 2 more cylinders. This maybe a more applical situation then I first thought. Like I have said in other palces, both Ford and Dodge seem to like to do on off cars and put them into low production like: T-bolt, 429 Taledega, Hemi Darts, and Charger Daytonas. Just a thought.

 

Building the engine and putting it in a Mustang is VERY feasible...
If a skunk-works team can do it on a shoestring budget and limited resources, it can be EASILY done with proper funding and full resources.

For me, the question is, just who wants a Mustang with such a powerplant?
Is there actually a sufficient market willing to throw maybe $35-40k at a car with a V10 in it?

Personally, I'll throw $35-40k at an '06 Mustang from Ford or SVT with a V10 in it, as long as it has those "Boss 351" decals on it and some Boss-nostalgia peices in it like the Mach 1 car (Hurst shifter, guage-pack, dash clock on the Pass-side, upholstery, etc).
Problem is, I'm also ready to throw $40k at a Shelby Mustang if it comes around with the right combination. I am also ready to throw $40k at an '06 Cobra if it has 500+hp and good looks. But not both or all three - I'm gonna pick ONE.
(I'll buy the others in a few years after some depreciation sets in! )

 

One last thing...
For those of you who are commenting about the sound of the V10...
You should download and play this video from Brad's website...
Dragstrip Video (It's 7MB so beware)
You may need to copy/paste - here's the URL http://www.themustangsource.com/bossv10/v10boss1.mpg

Listen to the sound of the Boss 351 as he cleans 'em off and then how it sounds going down the strip. It don't sound like no Viper!

I was also struck by how low in the RPM the driver is shifting - his shiftpoints sounded like @4500 rpm!
He clobbered a poor guy named Rob in a '94 GT who got the jump on the V10, but lost it by the end of 1st gear! The Boss car ran like a banshee 'til about 1000', then just coasted to a 12-sec 111mph run.

 

I am not trying to flame anyone here,But I go to Ford Technical institute here in Dearborn and we took a field trip to Fords Experimental Garage last week and some questions were raised about the V-10 car.The Ford rep said that it was basically one of the toy cars that would not make it into production but was done for a feasibility study.Did'nt make it sound like it was too promising to us that it would see the light of day as a production model. We did how ever get tp see the production version of the 05 Mustang and I was'nt really that impressed with it.From what I saw it looked like a 69 Mach 1 Retro'd.I am not a big fan of that body style myself.I liked the concept alot better because it had more cues hinting to the 67-68 body style. They did have a few N/A 5.4 3 valves in those 05's that were in the garage that day. The rep told us that the 5.4 3 valve would almost 99% be in production Mustangs.Not right away when the 05's are released but shortly after more like late 05 early 06. We also got to see the revamped Super Duty series for 05.That has a all new front suspension.It lost the leafs and went back to coil springs and a somewhat new front end.That truck was up in the air on a lift being worked on so they could'nt remove the bra to show us the new front end. This is all fact based on what we were told that day and also what I have seen with my own two eyes.

James

 

I have no reason to doubt that it will not make production either. It would be a fun car, but I do not see Ford stepping up and actually doing this.

 

Ford is suppose to come out with a Shelby Cobra right? If so, I could see a 351 V10 for a GT500. I don't think that is too far fetched. Also remember that the GT500 were aimed right at the Corvettes back in the day. This could be done again. I could see a 60k price tag on it and it selling. It would put the car right in the sweet spot between a 40k SVT Cobra and the GT 40. It is that missing link that Ford is missing right now to compete against the Corvette.

 

An interesting take on things. I'll give you that.

You must also remember there have been staggered offerings of Cobra R models thrown in above the Cobra in years gone by. They didn't fit between a Cobra and GT, because there was no GT in those days, but the Cobra R is a coveted beast, and SVT would be severely remiss if they didn't offer another sometime soon - like, after the '05 Mustang debut and the '06 Cobra comes along, maybe?

And again, I am actually expecting the run-of-the-mill Shelby cars to be like SS is for Chevy. I'd dearly love to see him endorse a "KR" or a "King Snake" or a Daytona Coupe II that is *****-up-on-the-wall performance, but I think that car is a ways off. The first super-performer I'd look for with his name on it will be a NEW AC Cobra with Ford power - like the mid-60's cobra roadster. Probably a different name, but similar. Recall, he inked a deal with AC Motorcars of England last fall...

 

One thing to remeber is that the R model has always been a striped road race car. The car lacks any creature comforts. I could them using a production GT500 and stripping it down and costing a little less. I don't think a production car like this will have a impact on wheather they build another R model or not. I do think that it will allow them to possibly cut cost by basing it off a production model and maybe make it a more perminit model. What about a GT500, then have a "KR" kind of R model?

I was reading another post and they were talking about the new Z06 will cost about 60k. If so, a GT500 with this engine would pit it directly against the Z06, something they tried to accomplish with the new S/C Cobra. Like I said before, this V10 is only a 4.6 with 2 more cylinders. I think if they can get a clutch to live behind this motor it wouldnt suprise me if it came out. What I can't understand is that they can get a clutch to live behind a 500/500 Viper, but can't this motor. It must be pushing some serious power to have this problem.

I remember there being talk of a new BOSS coming out after the new body. If so this could be ther very basis of a 351 BOSS.