Actually, they're #4 in 36 month quality, ahead of Cadillac! lol

36 month != long term, IMO. I'm interested in durability.

Find your average 10 year old Toyota and 10 year old Chevy and drive them side by side. How does each car feel, how has it held up?

 

I didn't say everyone would cross hop,I said it puts buick in a league it cant compete it. As for cross hopping, my grandma is currently debating between, buick, lincoln(what she owns now), 3 series and Lexus, so crosshoping happens...
Base BMW is the 325i with a I6 not a 4 cylinder. Its rated at 215hp with the manual transmission does 0-60 in 6.7 seconds. In auto form its right at 7 seconds, so its not the dog you try to make it out to be.
I agree lexus is a top tier brand, but again you MISSED THE POINT! The point is at 35, and 40 grand you're in top tier territory and you have to be willing to compete. Instead of pricing the buick at 38 or 39grand fully loaded and offering ridiculous discounts why not just MSRP the damned thing at 33k or 32k?

 

Don't tell Buick/GM that.

GM has made it very clear that they're aiming to make Buick a full luxury brand intended to compete with Lexus. Though at this point they're missing competing cars to the majority of the Lexus lineup, that is supposedly eventually their intention.

Caddy is the brand that's supposed to chase after the Euro cars as well as Lexus' edgier lineup (the IS, SC, and possibly truck based SUVs if Buick doesn't follow suit, such as the GX and LX)

 

Correct, 36 months is still short term territory. Long term is 5 years + in my opinion.

 

Having driven a 98 Camry, 100K miles, and my wife's 98 Malibu, 80K miles, in the same day I can say the Camry didn't rattle BUT several more things were wrong with the Camry than the Malibu, engine light on that the dealer can't figure out etc. Also I preffer the layout of the Malibu to the dullness of the Camry, but that is my preffrence.

 

Ohhh my, you've gotta be kidding me, the Camry is an infinately better car than the malibu. We have two malibu's a few trucks a single camry at work as work vehicles. The 01 camry is 10x better than our 05 malibu and its got 80k more miles on it.

 

You can't compare a compact above the $35K mark to a fullsize at the $35K mark it doesn't work like that. Heck what does a 5 or 7 series BMW cost? That would be the Lucerne's competition not the freaking 3 series. Just because something costs the same doesn't mean someone will cross shop it!

Buick may have that plan for the future but for right now they aren't even close, just as GM has said they want Pontiac to be the US BMW it ain't that way now and won't be for the near future. Also the Enclave, which you have said is VERY much in league with the current Lexus offerings, is a showing of where GM is taking Buick. Buick will never be directly online with Lexus as Lexus aims higher and will slowly climb higher with each and every new model or redesign they introduce. Lexus is doing everything VERY well right now and assuming they keep the quality up, which I highly doubt they will let fall, they will only continue to rise. Buick will compete with low level Lexus' the ES and base IS and maybe the LS in the future. Also the RX and smaller SUVs. But the sport models and higher dollar cars will be Caddy territory. GM is taking a two pronged approach to fighting Lexus.

Wanted to point this out for you. Opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has them and they all stink. Just because you think something is right doesn't mean it is. BTW Threxx and IrocManiac how long to you keep your cars. Threxx I know you are leasing your A4 but had you bought a new car instead of leasing how long would you keep it before you purchased a new one?

Before I forget Buick offers a 4 year warrenty, I don't know the mileage contraints, on their cars not 3 years.

 

Why is the Camry better? Give me objective reasoning not opinion this time please!

 

Yeah how about the fact that the interior trim is not peeling off? The cars at work dont get a garage so they're exposed to the elements all the time. The dash trim in the 01 malibu has been peeling since I started working there in May. The 01 camry solid, no issues. While the malibu definately has more torque which is a good thing, it lacks the smoothness and quiet cabin that the toyota has ESPECIALLY when on the highway. I took the 01 malibu on a day trip to the otherside of the state and while it wasn't a horrid experience, the trim pieces falling apart and the dash rattles and wind noise were annoying. Next trim I took the camry and no such issues. I have not driven our 05 malibu to the extent I have driven the camry and older malibu, but from what i can tell its not as quiet as the camry and already has more rattles, however, the trim isn't falling apart yet.

 

I would think a 98 Malibu which was never garaged would have more problems than a newer one. Perhaps someone put in an aftermarket stereo or someone did work to it and didn't put things back together right, it does need to be done correctly to have things line up. But to base your TOTAL opinion on 1 car and to call it crap is totally stupid. In fact I don't judge my experiences on one car and then judge the rest of them like that. My suggestion to you is to drive more than 3 and then you can get an idea about what the car is about.

 

Our work cars are leases, generally 3 year or 5 year leases. They don't have aftermarket stereos in them, the only folks to do work on them is dealerships. The dash trim is one giant huge piece of plastic, I went to turn on my 4 ways no problem. Went to turn them off, the button caught on the trim I guess and the whole thing popped off...what caused it to pop off? Well appearantly according to our fleet manager it has been that way for awhile the glue just quit sticking. there's a half dozen other plastic pieces coming apart in that thing.

 

Sounds like a lemon. Again I own a 98 and the interior in it works perfectly fine.

 

This is the proverbial shell game people play, ever trying to hit the moving target. 10 years ago when Domestics were behind the initial quality curve it was something that was constantly harped on by the "elitists." Now that the gap has closed and the numbers reflect that, none of the initial quality stuff matters.

I have a friend with an early 90's Accord who, quite literally, cannot keep an exhaust system from falling off the car. He's redone it twice now in the past year or so, to my knowledge. My 1991 Jimmy has its share of problems...but it's virtually rust-free, has 150,000 miles on it, feels solid and runs great. "Personally", I see many more examples of old, still running Domestics on the road here in the rust belt than imports. Again, that's just my experience though.

 

Your blaming an exhaust problem on Honda? If its not the original exhaust how about blaming the exhaust shop NOT honda since its no longer the honda exhaust

Domestics can and do run for long periods of time, but the quality is NOT as good as foreign cars. Especially in the late 80s/all of the 90s...thats beginning to change, but I still think that the complete package is somewhat lacking from our manufacturers. Hopefully GM is beginning to wake up, the rumor is that they are. I hope ford and chrysler do the same...ok maybe not chrysler but ford

 

Look at what I'm driving right now - an Audi. One of the most expensive hunks of rolling crap on the market. I don't give a damn about what happens under warranty, though. I care what happens after warranty.