You all realize that Toyota is probably 90% of the reason GM is building good cars now right? Imagine if they weren't losing any market share how many corners they'd cut.

 

So by that logic, is the Avalon $6,000 over priced?

 

I think the avalon is overpriced...is it 6k overpriced? maybe, I dont buy new cars though because they're incredible ripoffs. I think the avalon is probably worth paying as much or more for than the buick based on their longterm track record. GM has yet to rebuild their reputation, however, I think they're beginning to wakeup and we've seen that with cars like the Lucerne, and the CTS. Their new cars are beginning to show some promise it terms of quality, the question is are they going to be good vehicles long term? Are they going to continue to improve? To winback market share the big3 not only have to be as good as the competition they have to be significantly better. They are just not there yet, at least not based on what I've seen. I hope this next round of vehicles will begin to show american manufacturers have returned to building superb cars. Onlytime will tell.

 

Wrong

Once the guy that strangled the life outa GM left , Zarella free GM knew they had a problem and hired someone to fix it . Welcome to the present . The full on results of that move are just now coming to market

 

Do you think if sales declined they would have made such an effort?

 

You mean hadn't declined?

 

Saw one today.

Not good. Still looks like a bland, soul-less grandma-machine.

blech.

 

Saw one today.

...and I like it!

Also, saw it at the LA auto show as well as the Frisco Show back in November. I sat in it and it fits me nicely. I like the interior and the exterior. I actually would put that on my shopping list. But I'll wait for the 6-spd auto and Nav when it's supposed to come out next yr to like it even more

 

I can't understand how a great car is let down so badly (in buyers minds) with the availability of the base 3.8L V6. Surely GM can learn a thing or two about marketing here.

Not that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the iron 3.8L but its such a competitive and image conscious market... why give customers and reviewers a chance to not like the car?

Buicks are about refinement, therefore, they should only be equipped with DOHC engines irrespective of how popular the 3.8L V6 is with 65 yos. Buick has to look to the new age buyer... Enclave is a pointer in the right direction.

 

Of all the new GM cars getting high praise...this is the last one I would have expected....

 

This is exactly the type of statement that a blind toyota loyalist would make. So let me get this straight...If Toyota didn't exist no other automaker could fill the void by making high quality automobiles and apply the pressure to GM to produce higher quality cars? Frankly, I think that's a load of crap.

 

Might want to re-think that there. Buick is without a doubt one of the highest quality built and designed cars on the road. They age VERY well. JD Powers puts Buick #3 in long term quality and #4 in Initial quality. Both well above Toyota.

 

I agree, my family has a long line of buick history, but my point stands, people dont view GM products as being top notch. Quite frankly they're not, look what buick competes with in that price range other than toyota...
BMW
Infiniti
Lexus
Acura
Mercedes
Lincoln
And even Caddy

What keeps them from having to compete with such nameplates? The huge incentives on buying them. As I said earlier you'll probably get out the door for low 30s on a top of the line lucerne due to incentives/rebates etc...If you actually had to spend 39 grand on a buick would you get a buick? I sure as hell wouldn't, hell I dont now anyone who would and my family has had numerous buicks in its car lineup. When you start talking 30 grand suddenly things are different. At that point it does become a pretty good car for reasonable price without having to worry about too much competition.

 

Fair point, but your itching to bash a toyota loyalist is clouding your vision...

The fact is it has been two companies that have been driving the automotive world forward for 2 decades...those two companies are both Honda and Toyota. Those two companies both realized that building a quality car and trying to constantly improve everything from manufacturing techniques to quality that they could become world players in the automotive market. Thats exactly what they did putting huge pressure on American manufacturers and in the late 90s even the Germans have something to worry about. I hope the big3 wakeup. Chrysler has exterior designs down pat, its the rest of their program taht is sorely lacking. GM is building in my opinion the best drivetrains out of the big3 and among the best in the world. The real problem with GM right now is interior quality (which is starting to improve) and downright boring styling. Ford is building good interiors, the best out of the american auto manufacturers, but their overall package especially when it comes to the drivetrains and suspensions in their cars are sorely lacking.

 

Sorry but your list of competitors is to big and includes marks that NOBODY crossshops. For example BMW and Mercedes. The cheapest BMW would be the 3 series, a compact, with a 4 cylinder for what $32K? Now if you took the nearest competitor from Buick it would be the LaCrosse, a midsize that starts at $21K. Sure you could load up the Lacrosse to get the sport suspension and 3.6 DOHC engine but it will NEVER be as sporty as a BMW it isn't supposed to be. Also they are not marketed to the same type of buyer. The BMW is sport lux and the Buick is traditional lux, floaty smooth riding. Even loading up the Lacrosse it will still be about the same price as the BMW if not a hair more. Basically your logic is flawed. Lincoln, Acura, and the older Infiniti cars, specifically the M, are possible competitors but the others are totally out there.

I will also say that for the most part Lexus is not a competitor to Buick. it is like Caddy, BMW, and Mercedes it is a top tier brand.

I am not arguing consumer perception I am arguing FACT! And Buick is one of the most reliable brands to buy a car from, PERIOD.