How did this:

Go to this?

 

Looks about the same to me?

Just exactly what part of this do you not understand?
I'm saying I think a small portion of their trucks are going to fail under extreme use, and Toyota will end up with egg on their face. It's purely a guess how many... maybe 2%, maybe 20... depends how many buyers actually use the pizz out of them and in what way (hauling v. payload v. offroading, etc).

The theme of the thread is "Toyota's increasing amount of recalls", and I am pointing out what I think will be another one yet to come.

Meanwhile, I think it's time to drop this sidebar... in case you haven't noticed, it seems to only be you and I discussing this boxed-frame issue in this thread.


Save my posts to your "favorites", let's give them 2 years, and see what we have. Since we both can not cite factual examples of failure or success for the trucks yet, the best we can do is agree to disagree for the moment, and see what happens!

 

i hope this is egg on Toyotas face.. the GM and Ford trucks are all full..

they should point this out..in so many commercials..

 

If I understand, GM only recently, as in just this model year, started using fully boxed frames is that correct?

If so, I'm not sure how "big a thing" GM would want to make of Toyota's not doing so...it would seem to me that for GM to make much of this issue it would open itself up to questions about why it only just now started using a fully boxed frame.

I also don't know that Toyota is going to see many failures...I saw the question asked earlier but not answered; how many failures has GM seen during the time it wasn't using a fully boxed frame? I suspect, not many at all or we would have heard about it.

If someone has some figures to the contrary I think it would be helpful to see them.

What I'm getting at in a round about way is that I think some of the "improvements" in pick-up design have more to do with "one upmanship" that an answer to a problem...the fully boxed frame may the the answer to a problem that no one was really having but it does give some bragging rights.

 

Well that's exactly it. To GM fanatics it was acceptable while GM was doing it, but the very instant the GM trucks start going to fully boxed frames, it's an absolute joke that Toyota isn't.

Sorry but that's the epitome of fanboy mentality right there. Granted I think it's equally retarded that all of a sudden the Tundra gets big brake rotors and some other beefy parts and then starts advertising these 'comparisons' all over the place despite the fact that the previous gen truck was downright wimpy in those same regards compared to the competition. (the frame on the previous tundra was especially pathetic looking...

Yeah I tried a couple times to get that question answered. Why are people assuming that a C-channel frame section will fail for the Tundra unless it was also failing for the domestic branded c-channel frames when they were using them? I mean GM was using them as recently as the 2006 model year so do we have a percentage of GMT-800 truck frames that have failed too? Using that simple logic that 'non-fully boxed = failures', it would seem the 800s should have seen measurable cases of failures as well.

And by failures I don't mean billy bob dumps 2 tons of gravel in the bed and tows a yacht in the back and gets pissed when the truck breaks down. I mean failure within actual rated tolerances.

 

no its called all new truck and still not the same as the ones they are looking to beat, brand new..comparisons to comparisons that Toyota has been doing in thier commercials....I know Ford has been throwing it around for a while..

 

No, it's better in some ways, and worse in others... nobody ever said it's the best truck in its class... at least I didn't. I just think it's stupid to claim a 2007 model truck is junk because it uses a frame design spec that GM just stopped using this current model year. What if the GMT-900s didn't come out until mid 2007 as was rumored at one point? Would this dicussion even be going on, or would people at least wait until the 900s came out before they talked smack about this particular design specification?

 

never said the Toyota was junk..in fact I think the Tacoma is one of the best out there..But it never carried over to the Tundra where full size trucks it counts alot more.

 

I decided after my last post that I was not going to post about this truck thing in this thread again - you and others have already carried it WAAAYYY too far from what it was intended to demonstrate - which is the fact that Toyota is now turning into the big cash machine that GM and Ford have been for decades, and their migration from purely quality-driven decisions to monetary-based decisions will cost them more problems and recalls in the future.
THAT'S ALL I MEANT TO SHOW, NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS, NOTHING HIDDEN, NOTHING SECRET.

If you choose to carry on this petty debate about when some company went to fully-boxed versus when some company decided it cost too much and how it would diminish the payload - suit yourself.

AS I said - Toyota THEMSELVES admitted boxing is a stronger design, but opted NOT to use it under the whole truck, basing their decision (publicly) on a BS statement that "the added steel will reduce payload", and even implying that "they know more about trucks than Ford and GM".
Apparently, Ford and GM have decided to use the strongest design they can afford to - whether it is needed or not. Maybe it IS overkill, maybe it's not.
THAT SPEAKS VOLUMES TO ME, as an engineer AND a consumer.

As a last point, it would seem to me that you would want to attack your competition with at least as good/strong a product - especially if you are going to advertise that it's maximum capabilities and ratings exceed that of your competition. With a design that they admit is not as strong as the competition is using?!?!
I'll leave it at that.

At this point however, I will point out that I do not appreciate being called "STUPID", and I never said this new Toyota was "JUNK" anywhere in any post.
You refuse to acknowledge simple points, opinions, or even facts that are irrefutable.
You choose to put spin and fictitious words in their place, and debate on them.
Your bias shines through in spades.


At this point, I find this thread becoming more offensive and pointless than the one Jason closed last week.

Post what you like, respond how you want.
I will not post in this thread again.

 

If you didn't call them junk, (and I'm not sure how saying 'Toyota will get a black eye when 10 to 20% of their hardcore truck users suffer failed frames' is not saying junk) then why are you concerned?

What, like that a fully boxed frame is superior? That the GMT-900 seems to be a superior truck platform? I've acknowledged both of those multiple times and the second one isn't even a fact or irrefutable.

I didn't put any spin on these words. They were your own and it was you who can't seem to see that back pedaling you've done.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=31

Really? What bias is that? Pro-Toyota? I guess that explains why the majority of my posts and threads on the lexus car chat forum are like these from just the last couple weeks of my posting?
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258834
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...13&postcount=6
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...80&postcount=8
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...1&postcount=33
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...1&postcount=17
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...7&postcount=28
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...&postcount=493
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...1&postcount=13
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/show...6&postcount=52

It's becoming offensive because you feel uncomfortable with your being criticized. You're not used to being on the other end of the stick - 90% of the time you enjoy being a forum bully... this is uncomfortable territory for you, I'm sure... but why not just be more careful with your wording when you start off a thread making grand claims and then just back down to 'I didn't really mean that's what would actually happen, but lets just see...'

And that I did.

 

Sad to say, its not about the cars anymore...we're in the 21st century already and yet so much hate still abounds...