toyota japanese cars are losers you can take your percieved almighty quality and keep it japan!

 

Toyota and Muscle Car don't belong in the same sentence togethet. Isn't there some kind of law against it?

 

I would buy a new Subaru Legacy GT (2.5 turbo) before an Avalon. I drove one and it was about as refined as I would want a car to be at my age and had some good pull. There is also a lot of mod potential.

 

Have you ever drag raced a twin-turbo Supra? They may not be muscle cars in the traditional sense, but they sure are quick.

 

true, but a family car avalon isnt exactly muscle as most have argued already

 

HP is getting pretty rediculus across the board, really. Chevy is going to have at least 7 cars and light-duty trucks (SSR, Silverado SS, TrailBlazer SS, Monte Carlo SS, Impala SS, two Corvettes) over 300 hp, 4 of them will have almost 400 or over 400, and one will have 500 hp.

Throw in the DCX Hemis and you're looking at a lot of hipo cars.

 

So your saying a Marauder cannot get 6.6 0-60 or 14 sec time slips stock?

 

You used the word "awed"? Your kidding right?

 

Toyota dealers DO NOT deal as mush as the next guy! MSRP on most of their vehicles is all you will get. Even then, al lot of the dealers like to throw add ons in as soon as they hit the lot to jack the price up.

 

My parents bought a 2000 Toyota Avalon brand new. It was the 1st year for the current body style. The MSRP was 27K with power seats, alloy wheels, and the keyless entry as the only options. They managed to haggle the dealer down to 25K, but they bought theirs in March, so the dealer had plenty in stock and needed to move them out(if they bought in September when they had only 1, I'm sure they couldn't have got such a good deal). Most of what the dealers have in stock are the more expensive ones with leather, sunroofs, etc that went for 30K. My bet is that the new car will move up in price, since the Camry has the 25 to 30K segment covered and it isn't much smaller than an Avalon.

As for the 280 hp V6, they better put a decent tranny behind it. The one in my mom's is buttery smooth, but shifts take all day and it shifts 500 rpm short of redline. I'd also bet that the torque numbers and power under the curve will be laughable. It will also use the VVT, which I am not impressed with because of the non-linear delivery of power(no power under 3K, then all of the sudden it switches on). I'm betting it will be a high 14 second or low 15 second car.

 

fwd != muscle car

 

You can enjoy the turbo lag and dated early '90s packaging of the Legacy. The great irony is that with a manual transmission and some clutch abuse the Legacy turbo is a quicker car, but with an automatic you're talking about 0-60 times that might be around the mid-7 second range.

Still, the worst thing about the Legacy is the narrow cramped cabin that results from Subaru's traditional Japanese heritage. In Japan, car used to be taxed on the basis of width (seriously), hence the narrow platform that's retained to this day.

 

Excellent point Aron. Horsepower doesn't mean a hill of beans in the quarter-mile if you don't have the tranny and diff gearing to support it. If Toyota were to design the Avalon to be a boulevard bruiser and quarter-mile king, they wouldn't necessarily put in the same tranny and differential gearing, as they would put in a fuel-efficient highway cruiser for mom & dad.

 

Much like the current Siena van, the Avalon has been greatly improved without a massive Detroit-style price increase. All things considered, the heavily optioned $33,400 Avalon I tested was incredible value compared to a $33,800 Buick LaCrosse I recently looked at.

The best thing I can say about the new Avalon is that it's the closest thing to a Lexus LS430 for Buick money. The stunning space efficiency of the old Avalon hasn't been lost, thankfully, but all of the unconventional or controversial styling feature are gone for good. Toyota's turned a perfect adequate car into a class leader. I wouldn't take a loaded Avalon over a Chrysler 300C, but I can honestly say that no V6-powered Chrysler 300 Touring or Limited can compete with the Avalon.

AronZ28, if your folks liked the last generation Avalon, they'd really dig on the new car.


1. Considering what happened to the Honda slushboxes in the Oddyssey, Pilot and MDX a couple years back, I hope that Toyota really beef up their tranny. Since we're talking about Toyota, there isn't much to worry about.

2. The Japanese have dramatically improved the drivability of their automatics in the last few years. If anything, the 5-speed automatic in RWD Nissans is more responsive and smoother shifting than the excellent Mercedes-designed 5-speed in the Magnum RT/300C. I'd say that there nothing wrong with the responsiveness of the automatic in the new Avalon.

3. Variable valve timing and even variable path induction manifolds used to be very non-progressive, but these days it isn't much of a problem. Even Honda's VTEC are losing the on/off feel of yesteryear.

 

Umm, folks with automatic Legacy GTs are getting to 60 in the mid 6 second range... Very high 14s in the quarter. Where the hell did you hear mid 7s to 60?

And turbo lag? Sure there is some, especially if you are used to a GM pushrod. It can keep up with traffic from 1800RPM and up though. Torque max is 3600RPM, most of that is available from 2800RPM on up. Not the same as a 3.8L, but it also doesn't fall on its face like the 3.8L does, hehe.

Interior specs seem close to what GM has to offer for a similar-sized vehicle:

Grand Am:
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 53.70
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 55.00
Front Hip Room (in.) 52.40
Rear Hip Room (in.) 49.30

Legacy:
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 54.40
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 53.70
Front Hip Room (in.) 51.00
Rear Hip Room (in.) 52.60


-B