I don't believe it did.

I'm just sick of hearing the whining about "Oh it's not built in America or it's roots belong here". Get over it!

FWIW, I wouldn't care where our Commodore/Monaro is built as long as the product has the integrity of a performance car (to quote Mike Simcoe - the next Monaro may not be built in Oz). It's a global world we live in people. GM is now operating as a global company - you don't think there's American engineers based in Australia working on the Camaro program?

Why should it bother ProudPony if Camaro promises to be a great car? All this nostalgic stuff is just irrelevant, cry baby material. Sorry if I state the bleeding obvious.

 

Maybe irrelevant to you. Not irrelevant to ProudPony (and trust me, there are lots of others like him).

Why do you think the GTO got so much (undeserved) bashing?

Not saying Proud was among them, but a lot of people immediately dismissed the GTO because it had no visual ties to the GTO of old. Heritage does matter to some.

Of course, if it had come from Aussieland but looked like a retro GTO, a lot of those naysayers would have been all over it.

I don't think Proud was speaking for all Camaro enthusiasts, but he was speaking for him. The point is that he wasn't bashing (at all) our friends down under. But you seemed to take it very personally.

 

I do believe it did - and based on your last response still do (even more so). But whatever.

Have a nice evening.

Bob

 

Naaa... kinda sad actually. I wish more guys would respect a cars' heritage when it has a cool one.

Not only "not offended", happy you did... you nailed it and that makes me feel better that I did in fact explain my POV effectively.

In addition, I appreciate your comments an your opinion as well. You were exactly right about my opinion - I simply don't want an Oz-designed-and-built car imported and named after a traditionally American icon. No more, no less.

Let me answer your question with a question...
Why should it bother YOU if this great new car is called "Comrade" or "Amigo" instead of Camaro? If it's such a great car, it will sell anyways, right?
"Would tell my name to thee, my dear... but tell me, does not a rose by any other name still smell just as sweet?"

"Nostalgic Stuff" is irrelevant to YOU... but NOT to me and many others here. 96_Camaro_B4C was dead-on about the GTO firestorm when it finally arrived here... the name was battered, the styling was battered, GTO loyalists were divided into groups and bickered amongst themselves, and despite the dealer gouging (which did wain later on) the car simply never grabbed-hold and sold well here - despite being an AWESOME car. So go argue with history... not me.

You can call it cry baby material if you wish, but if the car is not executed correctly for this - it's intended market - IT WILL FAIL. Then in a few years, you can cry all the way home in your next nameless, faceless, transportation appliance named after a famous Aussie vehicle from the past, that was designed and built in a place you can't even pronounce located somewhere in this global economy... and I truely hope you enjoy it!

Oh, and thanks for reading my first AND second posts with equal atentiveness and interest before bashing me a new one.
Does wonders for earning respect and credibility here.

 

Ahhhh please, don't patronize me. You'd look like a real goose if you (hypothetically) attended a Camaro project meeting and gave them the drivel you're dishing out here on this forum.

You really are undermining their work for what promises to be the best pony car ever. Yet the best you can come up with to defend your lament on the development overseas of a cult car is "you have an appreciation for heritage, fine art, bs, bs, bs..."

Yeah, you talk about credibility like you have some... well I don't think the Camaro project team would agree with you at all. What's more, you've seen the images provided by GM and others and still sound like you are holding back on subjective things that bear no relevance to what the product will bring.

Like it or lump it, I think your comments are unflattering to the team responsible for reincarating one of the most famous muscle car nameplates. Even if the car is being developed in Australia and will be made in Canada, the car is still a genuine Camaro as that is what GM have decided to call it.

 

If you think the "Camaro Team" (as you refer to it) has not already studied the heritage issue and the marketing group has not already looked at the package delivery - you're clueless as to how the automotive manufacturer works. In fact, I'm sure you don't nderstand the machine taht churns out vehicles. Funny, I've been earning a living in it for over 15 years now - the last 7 in a global capacity. So as for credibility in the auto manufacturing field... I'd tread carefully were I in your shoes.

I'm curious... what's your take on the "success" of the GTO here in the States? I assume you think we stupid donks up here just did not know what a great car really is and none of it's faults were due to the execution of the car itself, huh? No sense in learning from history... heck, you don't give a bunk about heritage or history or how old people did things anyways - it's full steam ahead.

Now, let me get this straight...
It's OK for you to defend your nation's ability to design the "best ponycar ever", but I can't defend my nation's right to do the same?
You can have pride in your people and your past, but I can't. Gotcha.
You can bash GM for making "mundane FWDs" but I can't say that IMO Holden shouldn't design an American Ponycar with an American badge on it?
Lastly, you can tell me what American buyers should want and how they should feel, but I can't... and I live here... and I have been into Ponycars since the 70's (probably longer than you have been alive). I own more ponycars right now than you have probably ever ridden in, but I have no cred. Gotcha.


Bottom line is you still don't get it, I think you have a very jaded and lopsided view of this situation, and I'm not going to keep pushing it. I will debate and I will discuss issues, but I refuse to argue for the sake of wasting time and keystrokes.
You are entitled to your opinion, and I hope you enjoy it.
See ya in another thread...

 

I, for one, think both of you have stated your opinions completely. If you insist on continuing this line of conversation, please take it to PM or email.

Thanks!

 

Fair call. But I was waiting and waiting... for Proud to admit that 'it's all about the money" for his company is dependent on Ford, GM etc... for its survival. It's got very little to do with heritage etc... that's just sugar-coating his true feelings (IMO).

Harping on about everything under the sun is just plain rambling. There is no 'real' point in Proud's posts - his true message is hidden with lines of words.

That's it, I think I've now made my point.

Have a good day everyone!

 

That's f***ing bulls**t.

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just misreading / misinterpreting his posts, but that is just out in left field somewhere.

I mean, yeah, economics are always part of the picture in this "global economy" and Proud (rightly) prefers to support the home team when possible (as you should yours). But to imply that he thinks it should all be done here is because his company is going to make a widget for the car is just bs.

Besides, for the 10th time, he didn't say he didn't want any Aussie cars here. He just said he'd prefer that if the car is to be a resurrected icon from our past, it should be done here. He also seems just fine with bringing over the G8 (as a G8, or a Commodore, or a Pontiac Blohmee, or whatever), and would welcome it with open arms as part of the GM family establishing its OWN heritage and history.

 

You've misread what I wrote.

I didn't imply his (i.e. Proud's own company) will earn a buck. It's his notion that his country will benefit if made here. That's the underlying sentiment. It's about jobs, livelihood, his family's wellbeing.

It's funny how Proud interchanges the words USA and then reverts to North America (including Canada) during his many points raised. You can't have it both ways. Canada is a country like Australia. No good including Canada in your argument and rambling on about being disappointed about Camaro design taking place in Australia.

It's a bit hard to make points on a forum but at least I've been consistent with my argument.

 

Even still, he said (is this the 11th time?) that he doesn't have a beef with bringing cars from Australia. He's fine with the G8.

He'd rather it not be called Camaro if that is where it is coming from. If the G8 had been named the Bonneville, it might have bothered him.

But as a G8, it doesn't.

What is so hard about that?

By the way, sorry I got a little harsh with the language.

 

Mate, no need to keep reiterating, I understand he doesn't want a Camaro name on a car that looks like a Camaro.

I understand (and agree) that calling Monaro a GTO was a mistake as it had nothing at all to do with the GTO of American tradition.

However, Camaro is a different matter - it's an all out assault on Mustang by GM, irrespective that development is being undertaken in Australia with countless American engineers.

Camaro: Designed by American. Developed by Australians. Built by Canadians. So what's wrong with that? Personally, I don't see a problem with it despite Proud's grievings.

I hope that was my final post on this matter.

 

Note emphasis.

Note prior emphasis. That's exactly what you wrote. Maybe you didn't write what you meant, but we didn't misinterpret what you wrote.

Me too.

 

Well you can write different things the same way mister!!!

His company (he owns it).

His company (the company he happens to work for).

You can interpret it the wrong way despite how it's written. Your fault if you misread it as nowhere in Proud's posts did he say he has his own company.

If you want to continue this, just respond back.

End of education lesson!

 

Did you see this?
http://www.bmcforums.com/showthread.php?t=42402