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Torana = bigger kappa!

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Old Sep 21, 2004 | 05:22 PM
  #1  
crYnOid's Avatar
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Torana = bigger kappa!

taken from goauto.com.au (should be on the site in the next few days if it isn't already)

sorry about the formatting but I don't have time to fix it, gotta get to work!

interesting yes?

Holden compact
concept stunner

EXCLUSIVE
by BRUCE NEWTON in France

THE Torana will be reborn in spirit when Holden reveals a
compact sedan concept car at next month’s Australian International
Motor Show in Sydney.
And the car is being touted as a potential BMW fi ghter
globally by no less than General Motors' product czar
Bob Lutz.
Mr Lutz viewed a clay rendition of the concept
during his visit to Australia last February and immediately
backed Holden plans to produce a running prototype
for Sydney.
Others who viewed the clay and gave it the thumbsup
included global engineering chief Jim Queen and
global design boss Ed Welburn.
But it is unknown whether it will be called Torana,
in honour of the compact LH-UC range that was manufactured
locally between 1974 and 1979.
That will no doubt be subjected to heavy
debate, just as reviving Monaro for the Commodore
Coupe was several years ago.
The concept car is expected to be powered
by a twin-turbo version of the new
Port Melbourne-built Alloytec V6 engine.
That engine confi guration is an obvious
pointer to a planned production turbo
Alloytec that should be used in the 2006 VE
Commodore and take on the Ford Falcon XR6
Turbo.
But a production version of the concept would more likely have
2.2-litre normally-aspirated and turbocharged four-cylinder engines, and possibly
a V6, according to GoAuto sources in the US.
The concept will sit on GM’s low-volume rear-wheel drive Kappa architecture,
which has so far yielded one production model, the Pontiac Solstice.
This in itself is a signifi cant advertisement for Holden’s engineering skill
because up until this point Kappa had only been used for left-hand drive fourcylinder
vehicles such as the Pontiac Solstice roadster.
“I encouraged that (Holden concept) direction because I think the corporation
could use a BMW 1 Series equivalent,” Mr Lutz told GoAuto in an exclusive
interview during GM’s global product seminar in southern France this week.
“From a communications standpoint, the only thing that bothers me a little bit
is we said Kappa was optimised around four-cylinder engines and you couldn’t
put a V6 engine into it, which of course was just a challenge to the Australians.”
Mr Lutz agreed the concept could form the basis for a new medium rearwheel
drive architecture that Holden would develop for the GM world, along the
same lines as the Zeta large and long wheelbase architecture.
“Of course it could,” he said. “Almost anything Holden does has potential
international applicability because they work it that way.
“And yes, if that thing really touches a nerve at the Sydney show and gets a
lot of international attention, and we get a lot of people saying ‘oh why don’t you
do that’, then we’ll take a look at it.
“Back in the old days Holden would have had to do the business case locally,
how many do they sell in Australia? The change is that now you do the worldwide
business study.
“And if Holden can say ‘hey we can sell 120,000 of these globally’, where for
the US it might be modifi ed and become a Pontiac, hey that’s fi ne.”
While Mr Lutz described the Holden concept as a 1 Series fi ghter initially, he
revised that to describing it as more of a “2 Series” sized vehicle, which suggests
something close to the size of the current 3 Series.
The BMW comparison is apt, because this project
originally emerged from the fertile mind of former
Holden managing director Peter Hanenberger, who
wanted Holden to develop a sub-Commodore sized
RWD sedan powered by four and six-cylinder engines
capable of taking on BMW’s iconic 3 Series.
Current Holden boss Denny Mooney is believed to
be an enthusiastic supporter of the concept.
Even if it ran an engineering program for a production
version of the concept, Holden would almost
certainly not build such a car itself because it has its
hands full preparing the Elizabeth assembly plant for
the arrival of the Zeta-based VE Commodore in 2006.
Currently, all Kappa-based production comes out of
GM’s Wilmington, Delaware, plant.
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 07:00 PM
  #2  
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Sometimes I wonder if a modified version of Kappa wouldn't be a more appropriate architecture for Camaro, than Zeta would.
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 07:06 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Originally Posted by Z284ever
Sometimes I wonder if a modified version of Kappa wouldn't be a more appropriate architecture for Camaro, than Zeta would.
You know...I mentioned that a few months ago on a few other boards and I got flogged over it. I still think it will be a LWB Kappa/hybrid Zeta platform for our "performance coupe".

Last edited by SGT Posaune; Oct 10, 2004 at 09:28 AM.
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 07:29 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

good thing australia is so far removed from GM corporate headquarters both physically and politically (inter-corporate politics). GM headquarters seems like such a messive, obese machine that it's really a miracle anything gets done at all.

it's also amusing how the GM corporate bigwigs seem to "discover" what Holden is doing from time to time. it seems like GM leaves Holden alone for the most part. hope it stays this way for quite a while too, because right now Holden seems to be the only bright spot in GM as far as "cool" concepts and ideas.

Last edited by morb|d; Sep 21, 2004 at 07:31 PM.
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 10:07 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

“From a communications standpoint, the only thing that bothers me a little bit
is we said Kappa was optimised around four-cylinder engines and you couldn’t
put a V6 engine into it, which of course was just a challenge to the Australians.”
Mr Lutz agreed the concept could form the basis for a new medium rearwheel
drive architecture that Holden would develop for the GM world,
along the
same lines as the Zeta large and long wheelbase architecture.
NEW medium RWD architecture.

Zeta is a LARGE car architecture.

Camaro is a medium sized car. Hmmmmmmm................................
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 10:22 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Wait...it says Holden will be making this chassis, not GM? So its not a Kappa?
Only Holden chassis developed for the GM world would be...*drum roll* Zeta! This could be the first Zeta SWB?
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 10:22 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Also...

No matter what they say about Kappa only needing 20,000 units to be profitable.....the truth is, Kappa needs a Chevy version to be viable.

Quite abit of engineering would be required...but just think....
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 10:24 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, and Vaux/Opel? That sounds like a full plate at 20-30k a year per car.
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 10:24 PM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Anyone know the Wilmington plant's capacity?
Old Sep 21, 2004 | 10:42 PM
  #10  
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Wilmington: On two shifts, Wilmington is good for 175,000 units.

100,000-120,000 Camaros. 20,000-25,000 Solstices. 20,000 Saturns. 20,000 Toranas.
Old Sep 22, 2004 | 02:17 AM
  #11  
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Almost as if someone was listening to my complaint about no Caddy smaller than the CTS. Of course, who knows what this Torana would translate to in the U.S. If not a Cadillac, then probably a Pontiac. It could inject some more life into the Pontiac lineup.

Re: Kappa for Camaro -- If you put a V8 in it, would it still be a Kappa? Surely that would be an expensive redesign?
Old Sep 22, 2004 | 09:33 AM
  #12  
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Maybe I didnt type big enough...

Kappa is designed here in the US. Holden is desiging Zeta. I dont think that this is Kappa.
Old Sep 22, 2004 | 10:04 AM
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Maybe I didnt type big enough...

Kappa is designed here in the US. Holden is desiging Zeta. I dont think that this is Kappa.
Or maybe you didn't read this:

The concept will sit on GM’s low-volume rear-wheel drive Kappa architecture,
which has so far yielded one production model, the Pontiac Solstice.
This in itself is a signifi cant advertisement for Holden’s engineering skill
because up until this point Kappa had only been used for left-hand drive fourcylinder
vehicles such as the Pontiac Solstice roadster.
Old Sep 22, 2004 | 10:10 AM
  #14  
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

It says Holden will make it...Kappa is already made and it has a factory. Why would Holden develop something thats ready for production?
Old Sep 22, 2004 | 10:15 AM
  #15  
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Re: Torana = bigger kappa!

Originally Posted by Big Als Z
It says Holden will make it...Kappa is already made and it has a factory. Why would Holden develop something thats ready for production?
Maybe there is something I am not getting myself, but it looks like this Torana is based off Kappa. They modified it to make it larger and right-hand drive. Interestingly enough, the article says that the concept will sit on it. Which may mean that the production car will sit on another platform. In which case it hardly makes sense to go through so much engineering to modify Kappa only for a show or two.



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