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Tom Stephens:Our upcoming programs have aggressive mass targets

Old Aug 26, 2009 | 05:21 PM
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Tom Stephens:Our upcoming programs have aggressive mass targets

From Tell Fritz:


Hi Fritz. Why has GM recently been substantially increasing the mass of their mid-size vehicles (~500lbs)? Cars like the CTS, LaCrosse and Camaro are simply too heavy. They would move faster and be more fuel-efficient if they were lighter.

Here's the response: Mass is an important element in total vehicle performance for key attributes such as Fuel Economy, Stopping Distance, and Acceleration. Direct mass comparisons are more complex than they might appear given the impact of option content and compliance with future safety standards.
The industry has generally been trending to larger overall vehicle size and overall vehicle mass. Examples include the Honda Accord, Toyota Corolla and even the new Toyota Prius, which have all increased in size and mass, but the focus on reducing mass in the future is clear. In fact, many competitors have made their mass reduction goals very public.
Some of the increases are related to the growth in safety content to meet the increasing safety performance requirements. That said, we recognize that we must make significant improvements in this area. Our upcoming programs have aggressive mass targets and the Product Development Team is using both simple and advanced methods to deliver on these targets. Moving this metric to the forefront and driving efficient, high quality designs is foundational to our future product success. -Tom Stephens, Vice Chairman Global Product Development
Old Aug 26, 2009 | 05:49 PM
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Tom Stephens is saying the same thing that every other automotive company is saying. It would have been a surprise to hear him say anything else.

I wait with anticipation to see what actually comes from this. Up to now, I've not seen much, but CAFE and oil price scares are less than two years old.

Last edited by teal98; Aug 27, 2009 at 12:28 AM.
Old Aug 26, 2009 | 09:07 PM
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The standard safety equipment excuse was used, but at least the issue wasn't dismissed entirely. I'm sure they always have weight targets. Let's just hope they're taken very seriously right now for all of the reasons cited.
Old Aug 26, 2009 | 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp4uc
The standard safety equipment excuse was used, but at least the issue wasn't dismissed entirely. I'm sure they always have weight targets. Let's just hope they're taken very seriously right now for all of the reasons cited.

Pretty strong talk from Lutz's replacement, who is an engineer and not a PR guy.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Z284ever
Pretty strong talk from Lutz's replacement, who is an engineer and not a PR guy.
I missed that it was Tom Stephens, seeing the "Hi Fritz" part at the beginning.

I still would have expected him to say no less. I just hope they're successful.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 06:56 AM
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Ironic, CAFE might actually give Z284ever the Camaro he wants

I'd be happy seeing cars like the Camaro SS and Corvette stay at around 400HP and drop some wait to improve performance.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 08:39 AM
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If they can get a production camaro down to 2000 lbs., you wouldn't need 400 HP.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by km9v
If they can get a production camaro down to 2000 lbs., you wouldn't need 400 HP.
Is that number a typo? Keep in mind that the current Smart car checks in at 1600.

Realistically, a proper Camaro equipped with a V8 and all the bells and whistles could still come in a few hundred pounds lighter than what we have now if it's designed from the ground-up with weight in mind.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by km9v
If they can get a production camaro down to 2000 lbs., you wouldn't need 400 HP.
Horsepower is not a matter of need in a Camaro.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Z28Wilson
Is that number a typo? Keep in mind that the current Smart car checks in at 1600.

Realistically, a proper Camaro equipped with a V8 and all the bells and whistles could still come in a few hundred pounds lighter than what we have now if it's designed from the ground-up with weight in mind.
I hope 2000lbs is NOT a typo, although to be honest i think 3000lbs is a better midterm goal.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 09:48 AM
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I'd be happy with a loaded up, top of the line, Camaro weighing in at around 3500lbs.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixer-Bird
I'd be happy with a loaded up, top of the line, Camaro weighing in at around 3500lbs.
Does "loaded up, top of the line" include checking the option box for a convertible?
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by JakeRobb
Does "loaded up, top of the line" include checking the option box for a convertible?
I personally might allow for a bit more with a vert - after all, it is expected that you deal with some extra weight when you buy one.

I can't wait to see the final number on the 5th Gen vert though.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 10:18 AM
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If I could just pick a number and have it be true without thinking about feasibility, I think I'd want the coupe to weigh between 3000 and 3200 pounds depending on options. I'd allow an extra 200 pounds for a convertible.

Anything lighter than that tends to be a problem IMO -- you get tossed around by semi trucks and crosswinds.
Old Aug 27, 2009 | 10:43 AM
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I had the standard hardtop coupe in mind. People that buy verts probably would be okay with a 3700lbs. drop top version.

I think these are realistic goals for the next gen Camaro.

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