Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 coupe
02-15-2012, 01:21 AM
#47
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
No word yet, C&D is conjecturing 59k for the coupe - fully loaded that would be cool, but for a base car that is way to much especially when the cross town rival is cheaper yet and fully loaded with more advanced features (MRC and IRS) If that turns out to be the case then a fully loaded GT500 coupe would kiss or break the 70k barrier. 
And if thats the case, it will get real interesting when the ADMs are factored in, you will probably see GT500s going for Z06 Carbon money
Great time to be a Mustang fan, but not if your in the market for one.
And if thats the case, it will get real interesting when the ADMs are factored in, you will probably see GT500s going for Z06 Carbon money
Great time to be a Mustang fan, but not if your in the market for one.
02-15-2012, 01:22 AM
#48
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
Pricing is supposed to be announced within the next couple of months. Supposedly, anytime on of the engineers or people working on the program is asked the question, all they do is smile real big. I have a feeling it will not be much more than the existing car. Ford has alot of margin to work with, on the GT500, so they have alot of leeway on the pricing.
The no GG tax thing was announced at the same time the 650hp and 200+mph was. They didn't give the actual EPA rating, but said it would not have a GGT.
Yes there is alot more horsepower, but the gearing is higher (numerically lower), which allows the engine to loaf more. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual rating was exactly the same as the 2011/12.
The no GG tax thing was announced at the same time the 650hp and 200+mph was. They didn't give the actual EPA rating, but said it would not have a GGT.
Yes there is alot more horsepower, but the gearing is higher (numerically lower), which allows the engine to loaf more. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual rating was exactly the same as the 2011/12.
02-15-2012, 02:00 AM
#49
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
Pricing is supposed to be announced within the next couple of months. Supposedly, anytime on of the engineers or people working on the program is asked the question, all they do is smile real big. I have a feeling it will not be much more than the existing car. Ford has alot of margin to work with, on the GT500, so they have alot of leeway on the pricing.
If you get down to it, there are numerous detail changes to the car yet no substantial re-engineering (at least in my eyes) that would require a large price increase.
The 60k+ rumor also seems to be based on the notion (by Mustangers) that any large increase in performance will be accompanied by a 20%+ increase in price per the 2003-2004 Cobras over thier predecessors and the GT500s 20-30% increase in price over its predecessor.
02-15-2012, 10:17 AM
#50
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
Thats what I'm saying, SVT Cobras were produced from 1993 to 2004 and if you want to get right down to it, the only Cobra Mustangs prior to the SVT cars were produced from 1976 to 1981 with the exception of the Cobrajet Mustangs (68 model year car and the various 2008 - 2012 race cars).
Other than that, any Mustang to wear a Cobra emblem is a Shelby either in GT350 (although I dont think the modern coversion GT350 wears a Cobra badge at all) or GT500 trim.
I think one of the reasons that the modern GT500 is called a Cobra is due to SVT Cobra diehards who didn't care for Ford disbanding SVT and Ford subsequently rebranding the top tier Mustang a Shelby. I'm a member of SVTOA and they pointedly remind thier subscribership about that just about every time they put something out in print with a GT500 in it.
And talk about an odd duck, you have some Mustang guys who flatly refuse to acknowledge the current GT500 as a Shelby car at all since it wasn't produced in a Shelby factory. These guys only consider the 65-69 cars true Shelby Mustangs even though like the current GT500, every Shelby Mustang from 1968 to 1969 (some 69's were titled as 70 cars) was indeed produced by Ford and by that logic then only the 65 to 67 (67 was the first year for the GT500) and the modern conversion cars are true Shelbys.
IMO, Ford should have never muddied the waters by calling any Mustang a Cobra, its a nice fancy name, but when you get down to it there is only 1 Cobra. Frankly anything else is just lipstick on a pig (even if some of those pigs were pretty good cars)
Other than that, any Mustang to wear a Cobra emblem is a Shelby either in GT350 (although I dont think the modern coversion GT350 wears a Cobra badge at all) or GT500 trim.
I think one of the reasons that the modern GT500 is called a Cobra is due to SVT Cobra diehards who didn't care for Ford disbanding SVT and Ford subsequently rebranding the top tier Mustang a Shelby. I'm a member of SVTOA and they pointedly remind thier subscribership about that just about every time they put something out in print with a GT500 in it.
And talk about an odd duck, you have some Mustang guys who flatly refuse to acknowledge the current GT500 as a Shelby car at all since it wasn't produced in a Shelby factory. These guys only consider the 65-69 cars true Shelby Mustangs even though like the current GT500, every Shelby Mustang from 1968 to 1969 (some 69's were titled as 70 cars) was indeed produced by Ford and by that logic then only the 65 to 67 (67 was the first year for the GT500) and the modern conversion cars are true Shelbys.
IMO, Ford should have never muddied the waters by calling any Mustang a Cobra, its a nice fancy name, but when you get down to it there is only 1 Cobra. Frankly anything else is just lipstick on a pig (even if some of those pigs were pretty good cars)
02-16-2012, 04:48 PM
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 02-18-2012 at 08:56 PM.
02-16-2012, 06:21 PM
#52
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
Fix'd, AC and the Britsh want people to believe that it was an AC, in any event, very nice!!!! Who is the kit from? ---> edit<--- NM, I see Shell Valley
02-18-2012, 09:24 PM
#54
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
A few things Im confused about why you make those corrections though.
I always thought of and heard of those cars as Ford AC Shelby Cobra's.
- The original Shelby Cobra body's I am pretty sure came from the British AC cars.
- Though it was obviously a Shelby Cobra, I always believed them to be through Ford like the GT 500. Also I believed the Cobra name was a Ford owned name which was why Ford was able to keep the Cobra name and later use it on the Mustang.
And to me
- some of this is historical as to who owned, produced, and worked with who on what car (e.g. did ford have any involvement)
- some is because the water has been muddied like you said by both Ford and Shelby (e.g. Ford putting Cobra name on Mustangs when Shelby left and Shelby putting Shelby name on Dodge 4 cyl when he went to ford. Shelby didnt seem that upset about putting the Shelby Cobra top of the line Super Snake name on a top of the line Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500)
02-18-2012, 11:46 PM
#55
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
The Shelby Cobra evolved from the AC Ace which eneded production in 1962 with AC Cars supplying a rolling chassis to Shelby American for production of the 260, 289, and 427 Cobras.
After Cobra production ended, AC did use the left over parts to build an AC 289 (the used the 427 Cobra body but was fitted with a small block Ford)
I dont know why AC and most everybody else says AC Cobra? In 1965 Shelby won the FIA Manufacturer's Cup and they entry reads Shelby, not AC and not AC/Shelby. Also the 62-67 Cobras only featured Cobra and powered by Ford badging. The 260 and 289 Cobra chassis were the work of AC engineers but the 427 Cobra chassis were codesigned with Ford
Go to SAI's website and there is zero mention of AC or an AC Cobra
Shelby History | Carroll Shelby International, Inc.
And Carroll Shelby's timeline doesn't mention it either.
Carroll Shelby - An American Icon
I guess you could liken a Shelby Cobra to the Callaway C16, the C16 is based on the Corvette but isn't considered one
After Cobra production ended, AC did use the left over parts to build an AC 289 (the used the 427 Cobra body but was fitted with a small block Ford)
I dont know why AC and most everybody else says AC Cobra? In 1965 Shelby won the FIA Manufacturer's Cup and they entry reads Shelby, not AC and not AC/Shelby. Also the 62-67 Cobras only featured Cobra and powered by Ford badging. The 260 and 289 Cobra chassis were the work of AC engineers but the 427 Cobra chassis were codesigned with Ford
Go to SAI's website and there is zero mention of AC or an AC Cobra
Shelby History | Carroll Shelby International, Inc.
And Carroll Shelby's timeline doesn't mention it either.
Carroll Shelby - An American Icon
I guess you could liken a Shelby Cobra to the Callaway C16, the C16 is based on the Corvette but isn't considered one
02-19-2012, 04:10 AM
#56
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
The Shelby Cobra evolved from the AC Ace which eneded production in 1962 with AC Cars supplying a rolling chassis to Shelby American for production of the 260, 289, and 427 Cobras.
After Cobra production ended, AC did use the left over parts to build an AC 289 (the used the 427 Cobra body but was fitted with a small block Ford)
I dont know why AC and most everybody else says AC Cobra? In 1965 Shelby won the FIA Manufacturer's Cup and they entry reads Shelby, not AC and not AC/Shelby. Also the 62-67 Cobras only featured Cobra and powered by Ford badging. The 260 and 289 Cobra chassis were the work of AC engineers but the 427 Cobra chassis were codesigned with Ford
Go to SAI's website and there is zero mention of AC or an AC Cobra
Shelby History | Carroll Shelby International, Inc.
And Carroll Shelby's timeline doesn't mention it either.
Carroll Shelby - An American Icon
I guess you could liken a Shelby Cobra to the Callaway C16, the C16 is based on the Corvette but isn't considered one
After Cobra production ended, AC did use the left over parts to build an AC 289 (the used the 427 Cobra body but was fitted with a small block Ford)
I dont know why AC and most everybody else says AC Cobra? In 1965 Shelby won the FIA Manufacturer's Cup and they entry reads Shelby, not AC and not AC/Shelby. Also the 62-67 Cobras only featured Cobra and powered by Ford badging. The 260 and 289 Cobra chassis were the work of AC engineers but the 427 Cobra chassis were codesigned with Ford
Go to SAI's website and there is zero mention of AC or an AC Cobra
Shelby History | Carroll Shelby International, Inc.
And Carroll Shelby's timeline doesn't mention it either.
Carroll Shelby - An American Icon
I guess you could liken a Shelby Cobra to the Callaway C16, the C16 is based on the Corvette but isn't considered one
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cars
In September 1961, Shelby airmailed AC a letter asking them if they would build him a car modified to accept a V8 engine. AC agreed, provided a suitable engine could be found. He first went to Chevrolet to see if they would provide him with engines, but not wanting to add competition to the Corvette they said no. Ford however, wanted a car that could compete with the Corvette and they happened to have a brand new thin-wall small-block engine which could be used in this endeavor. It was Ford's 260 in%u00B3 HiPo (4.2 L) engine %u2013 a new lightweight, thin-wall cast small-block V8 tuned for high performance. Ford provided Shelby with two 260ci engines. In January 1962 mechanics at AC Cars in Thames Ditton, Surrey fitted the prototype chassis CSX0001 with a 260ci Ford V8; the 221 ci was never sent. However, early engineering drawings were titled "AC Ace 3.6". After testing and modification, the engine and transmission were removed and the chassis was air-freighted to Shelby in Los Angeles on 2 February 1962.[4] His team fitted it with an engine and transmission in less than eight hours at Dean Moon's shop in Santa Fe Springs, California, and began road-testing.
Chassis numbering:
AC's system was as follows: The Ace chassis numbers read AEX... "A" being the car series and "X" being for export with left hand drive. Later with the introduction of the Bristol engine the chassis numbers ran "BEX..." When switching to the Ford 2.6 engine the Ace chassis numbers ran "RS..." for Ruddspeed as Ken Rudd may have been influential in the choice of engine. The first Cobra chassis was left hand drive and given the next letter in the alphabet,i.e. C. Therefore the numbers ran CSX2... for all the export Cobras. Otherwise, the prefix was "CS2...". The four following numbers ran from 2000 sequentially. When the MKIII Cobra was built the identification ran from CSX3000 (for left hand drive export). There were other numbers used such as "COB...." and "***...".
Just to show you its not just me who thought that the cars were Ford Shelby AC Cobra's, look up Shelby Cobra in Wikipedia and youll get redirected to AC Cobra.
AC Cobra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Very interesting because I never knew the details of the AC 289. I seem to remember a lawsuit at one point from Shelby against AC Cars for producing Cobra like cars before AC went under but that might not have been the AC 289 it might more likely have been the one prototypes mentioned in 1997?
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_Cobra
Two new 'Cobra' style cars were launched in 1997, the 'Superblower', an aluminium bodied car with a supercharged 4,942cc Ford V8 providing 320 bhp and the cheaper 'Carbon Road Series' (CRS) with a carbonfibre body and a 225 bhp version of the Ford V8 engine. 22 Superblowers and 37 CRSs were built between 1997 and 2001.
A further variant, 'the 212 S/C' with a 3506 cc 350 hp twin-turbocharged Lotus V8 engine was introduced in 2000, but only 2 examples were built.
In 2006, AC closed its UK factory and moved to Malta. However only 3 right-hand drive carbon-fibre AC Mk Vs powered by 340 bhp 5-litre Ford V8 engines were built before the Maltese operation closed. Since 2009, AC has licenced Gullwing GmbH in Germany to produce the AC MK VI, with an aluminium coated composite body and powered by a 6.2 litre 440 hp LS3 Chevrolet engine, or a 550 hp supercharged version. In the UK, AC Heritage based at Brooklands, is licenced by AC to produce traditional 289 and 427 continuation ACs.
Originally Posted by http://www.accars.co.uk
The Snake still charm's at 50!
2012 mark's the 50th anniversary of the birth of the AC Cobra and AC Heritage will be contributing to celebrate this important milestone of this iconic British car. From its humble beginning in the leafy village of Thames Ditton in 1962 to one of the world%u2019s finest sports cars, a car that defined the era and beat the best manufactures on and off the track.
AC Heritage are to recreate life in the Thames Ditton factory at the 2012 %u2018Goodwood Revival%u2019 meeting and have the pleasure of announcing that "A98 "The AC Le Mans Coupe will be active and on display over the weekend , we are very grateful to Barrie Bird for his commitment for 2012. And for the first time Lord March has allowed Open cars, alongside closed cars enabling the spectators to watch first hand the drivers wrestling the Snakes. We expect it to be a Top turnout as it is also 50 years of Shelby American and to pay homage we have a Genuine Shelby Cobra right now on display in the Historic Jackson racing sheds at Brooklands Museum.
Originally Posted by AC Cobra Hardtop by ~Logunsolo22
AC Cobra Hardtop by ~Logunsolo22 on deviantART
Photography / Transportation %u00A92010-2012 ~Logunsolo22
Before Anyone says its a shelby, or its a kit car, no it isn't. It's a Genuine AC Cobra running a Ford 5.0 V8
RAF Cosford Brakfast club meet
Photography / Transportation %u00A92010-2012 ~Logunsolo22
Before Anyone says its a shelby, or its a kit car, no it isn't. It's a Genuine AC Cobra running a Ford 5.0 V8
RAF Cosford Brakfast club meet
What I dont understand is how both Shelby and Ford could both have ownership of the Cobra name at the same time, especially when they long since gone their seperate ways. Ford having the Cobra name on the top of the line Mustang, and while Shelby finished some '67 Shelby Cars from "old rolling stock" they also allowed other companies to use the Cobra name to produce new replica cars. Add to that the company AC is licensing to do replica's Brooklands Motor Company Group, refering to the cars as AC Cobra.
Dang! I didnt mean this post to be this long but I did learn quite a bit.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 02-19-2012 at 04:13 AM.
02-21-2012, 11:11 PM
#57
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
Very interesting (at least to me) dynamic between Shelby, Ford, and AC. Im not sure how the legalities played out, but if Shelby could have stopped Ford from keeping the Cobra name when he left around the 70's and putting it on Mustang Im sure he would have. At the same time, and hopefully Ill remember this correctly from various articles, well before Shelby went back to Ford in the mid to late 90's he allowed Replica companie(s) to produce and use the Shelby Cobra name with the idea that proceeds would go to charity. Whoever he gave the power to use the name essentially sold it to several other replica companies which is why there are so many Cobra replica companies today. Like I said I also seem to remember him sueing AC Cars at one point over the name before they went under.
What I dont understand is how both Shelby and Ford could both have ownership of the Cobra name at the same time, especially when they long since gone their seperate ways. Ford having the Cobra name on the top of the line Mustang, and while Shelby finished some '67 Shelby Cars from "old rolling stock" they also allowed other companies to use the Cobra name to produce new replica cars. Add to that the company AC is licensing to do replica's Brooklands Motor Company Group, refering to the cars as AC Cobra.
Dang! I didnt mean this post to be this long but I did learn quite a bit.
1966 Ford became more involved with Shelby Mustang production sending engineers to work with Shelby in LA on the '67 cars due to an expected big jump in production (all but taking it over by the end of the model year).
Couple of tidbits.
Cobra is originally short for "Copper Braised".
Reason: the Cobra name was originally from Crosley (described one of their race engines). Shelby didn't pay for the name. It and it's logo lost it's trademark due to nonusage, and Shelby simply redesigned and registered it (ironically, almost the same thing happened with Ford over the name in the early 90s).
Also, Mustang and Torino weren't the only Ford Cobras.
Ford of Australia had a Falcon Cobra. Complete with a Cleveland 351 Australia was the only place that made them after Ford US switched to 351M and 351W
.Newer version:
Last edited by guionM; 02-21-2012 at 11:28 PM.
02-27-2012, 01:04 PM
#59
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Re: Some early numbers: 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 sec faster then the '12 GT500 c
It looks like the ZL1 is about 6 seconds faster than the current GT500 at VIR. So if the 2013 GT500 convertible is 3.5 seconds faster then the current GT500 coupe, then the coupe has it's work cut out!
Check this thread for more info: https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/201...2/#post6880038
-Geoff
Check this thread for more info: https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/201...2/#post6880038
-Geoff
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