The gold RS is a '67 and who ever said I got rid of it? I know have three Camaros.

 

Sure, GM could be better. Toyota and Honda have a great system for churning out millions of sliver sedans. But what have they done for enthusiasts like us? Not much. The S2000, the RSX, the Celica GTS (whoop de do btw)... but where's their Silverado SS, Impala SS, Z06, GTO? Really, what have they done for us lately?

One thing the incentives have done is help protect against more significant share loss... which with GM's large fixed costs could be particularly painful.

It's taken a long time for GM to reverse her fortunes, and stop the chronic decline of the 1980's. But the reversal has begun... and now it's time for the competitors to tremble.

 

Well, lets see...from Japan we've got MR2's, Celicas, RSX's, 350Z's, G35's, Miatas, RX8's, S2000's, Eclipses, EVO's, WRX's, NSX's, for starters - without even including the Europeans. Oh, by the way, each of these cars is ACTUALLY AVAILABLE WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION.

Other than the fantastic Z06 and GTO, GM doesn't really offer much to enthusiasts (what driving enthusiast could honestly drive a pickup truck or a car with an automatic transmission and front wheel drive?). And GM has done virtually nothing for affordable performance. It's scary but true - Japanese companies have done more for performance in the last several years than GM has. They used to have so much. Now we are comparing super sport impalas to plain old V6 accords. What happened?

 

Those are nice cars... but they are not Toyota or Honda which is what was being discussed when the vaunted Japanese juggernaut was mentioned by another member.

Manual transmission, bah. Manumatics are the first ominous sign of impending doom for the archaic foot-actuated friction clutch, which will eventually go the way of the manual choke.

Come with me, outside your ivory tower... meet people with Syclones, Typhoons, Silverado 454's, and 12-sec FWD Grand Prix GTP's. And outside of GM owners - are you saying Ford Lightning owners are not true driving enthusiasts?

Hooey. Repeat after me: L - S - 1

 

Now thats a problem with GM...they hate manuals cause inexperienced drivers can cause warranty problems.

My $.02 on the SS: Needs a few more ponies (maybe an LS1), a manual trans, and ... I dont like that '03 front end at all.

 

Originally posted by BigDarknFast
Manual transmission, bah. Manumatics are the first ominous sign of impending doom for the archaic foot-actuated friction clutch, which will eventually go the way of the manual choke.

Manumatics are a gimick. With the exception of the SMG BMW's, MR2's, and Ferrari sequential manuals (with friction clutch) - most of them are regular old slushboxes with a button to change gears and no performance advantage. Most of them shift at or near redline regardless of what the driver does. What the hell's the point? If the car's going to do everything except push the button why not do that, too?

If there is any real threat, it will come in the form of a CVT. Still, manuals will be around for a long time. I'm sure people thought sailboats would be gone forever 100 years ago - but a funny thing happened - a select group of people really liked boating the old way.

Come with me, outside your ivory tower... meet people with Syclones, Typhoons, Silverado 454's, and 12-sec FWD Grand Prix GTP's. And outside of GM owners - are you saying Ford Lightning owners are not true driving enthusiasts?

No, they sound like drag racing enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with them, but they are another breed of enthusiast with distinctly different likes and dislikes.

Hooey. Repeat after me: L - S - 1

Repeat after me: Don't-make-them-anymore. BTW, that car was "introduced" in 1998. The 2004 cars are out now. That was 6 years ago.
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I won't bother using my 04 GTP's TapShift at a dragstrip when I get around to going there, due to your point. You do have a point, with regards to straight-line acceleration from a stop (this incidentally is also why many LS1 owners seriously into drag racing choose an A4 with a stall kit over an M6) (sadly, Mustang owners do not have this option since their A4 is not as good).

However I find my 04's TapShift to be a real advantage when going around curves and corners. It really helps at forcing the car to 'stay in the right gear' instead of upshifting and then downshifting late. Just like a manual....

Sure, there are still sailboat fans. There are also kooks that go out and re-enact Civil War battles. That doesn't mean those ancient tactics are still useful. The VAST majority of today's pleasure boats have a powerful motor.

So... a hot Grand Prix only good for drag racing? Then pls explain how the 04 GTP CompG beat the new Altima, Passat and Accord in SCCA's Performance Handling Index road tests:

http://www.pontiac.com/grandprix/ind...?version=html# (hit the 'best handling' link)

I imagine the Impala SS results would/will be similar...

What's that again about what GM has done lately????

Umm, ya. You mean the 2004 Corvette and GTO, both with the LS1? Or the upcoming SSR or CTS-V, both with LS1 derivatives....

 

Hmm... Chevy full-size truck sales up 15%....

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/sales2_20031002.htm

 

Actually, I dunno what option I woudl take if my next car had the option of a tradition 6 speed, or one of the cool "Manumatics" thats done right.

I was happy when I read GM is considering one for the Corvette, but they want to make sure to do it techinically right..

True, it may not be as fun to drive.. although it may be fun in itself that you can keep both hands on teh steering wheel at all times and just tap the paddles coming in and out of a turn..

Don't F1 cars do automatic upshifting now too?

once they figure out CVT's and start using that everwhere, thats going to be really wierd.. Imagine trying to explain to a future kid, when back in the old days transmissions had fixed gear ratio's, and when you accelerated, you'd ride thru the engines powerband.. rather than ride thru the CVT's gearband... heh, and on top if that, we had a lever to select gears in a gate, and a pedal on the left actually controlled the clutch that connected the engine and drivetrain together!!

 

I'm all about robotized manuals (as used in the M3, 360, Vanquish, etc.), but manually-shifted slushboxes just don't do it for me.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm heavily biased (see da .sig), but I'm no automatic hater. In fact, a properly-programmed auto works damn well under 99% of the conditions out there (and either a performance mode switch or manual controls cover that other 1%). But, it's just not an adequate substitution for a real manual when it comes to performance driving.

The only people that would brag about having a manually-controlled auto and try to claim that it's better than a true manual gearbox probably really, really wish that they could have checked an option box for a slick 6-speed MTX.