RussStang

??
The Gallardo has been in production for a few years now. If you are referring to the higher output one, do you have a link to the show? I was not aware it was out yet.

meissen

Bleh, ok maybe I was just getting their review of the car confused thinking it was a newer, faster model... I did some googling and found out the program was called Top Gear (atleast I think) but I can't find any information on the exact Gallardo they tested.

FutureZMan

I dont think anyone who is a true camaro enthusiast on this board has forgotten the Mustang Vs Camaro information.

The mustang outsold the camaro for many different reason's, some boast its interior which imo was chit to begin with, some boast exterior design. I personally feel the camaro had the edge here, but again i dont know why.It sure wasnt performance, with the abundant oversteer, very frieghtening and disappointing handling at high-speeds and the very un-lively 4.6 in competiton with equal Year Camaro, its anyones guess why the mustang outsold the camaro. My thoughts have always been Teeny-bopper wow/*** factor is what pushed the Mustang off the lots.

Now with this said, we arn't talking about a Camaro. To compare is down right foolish and to me atleast insulting. We also arnt comparing ZR1's here, that was a $100,000 Vette' Vs the same Year's $38,000 Vette'. Yes we are looking at a $62,000 difference right from the lot, its plain to see why the ZR1 failed, and with every Year LT1 / LT4 Vette' treading closer to the ZR1's performance, there just wasnt any reason to carry on making it.

Now snapping back to reality, the New Z06 isnt a ZR1 in any facet. The ZR1 was a hopped up sports car, with super car pricing. The 2006 Z06 is a supercar w/ sportscar pricing. Thats what we call a winning combination. Now lets not forget that the Z06 isnt something new to the market, its been around for 5 production years, its established its place as some of the worlds best bargains, and best all around machines on the planet. $45,000 - $50,000 Vette' which is a great deal to begin with, but for a $28,000 lump your gentle giant, turns into a coked up psychopthic giant, let me assure you the new Z06 wont be going anywhere but up the food-chain to assume anything less makes you sound foolish.

The price per performance claim Vs the GT is just that, what do you want to receive for your hard earned money? Thats what it all boils down too, and what everyone here is arguing. Do you want something to toss into your garage as a weekend racer that isnt and never will be practical as a daily driver, that even at the site of body damage makes you cringe at the insurance claim, because exclusivness is a two way street friend. Ive seen the repair bill on a moderatly damaged C5, and i would bet the same damage on the GT would come x10.

On the other hand, would you like something thats both useful, and practical? Something to pick the wife up in, and is just fine to drive as far as you wish to do, in damn near any condition.Then when you start pointing these things out, people bring up the overheating issues, price tag and lack of performance per-dollar in the 2006 Z06 world.

Ford did succeed in making a halo car, on that same note GM has always had there's. With that said GM's halo car isnt a 5 year run, they are in it for the long haul, when something goes wrong you can be assured going to a standard dealership for repairs will be enough. This is both where exclusitivity and the insane price tag start to fail the consumer.

Again its all about what you want to get out of your dollar.

Im sure we are all aware of this, otherwise we would have all been driving the better selling mustang, instead of our taboo F-bod's.

If someone who cares about performance only (with the add of daily luxurys) was in the market for a Low 11 second car - High 10 second car there choice would be clear, unless again Exclusitivy came into play but for someone who could comfortably afford each car, the Z06 could both feed there need, and allow them to walk off the lot with the niciest winter beater imaginable and still not be in the $150,000 range.

Sometimes "Gotta be different" is nice, but not at the tune of $150,000. If the GT dropped to a REASONABLE $90,000 almost all of our arguements would be gone, but that just wont happen.

Don't fool yourself, we arn't exactly looking at managers of mcdonalds rolling around in either car. Anyone who can purchase either is well to do. Rich Racers will embrace the Z06 just as much as the GT, and can get a Z06 without having to worry about Sell-out's on the "Exclusive" GT. Most anyone i know who has a Z06 is in the $400,000 - $600,000 yearly income (combined) which would allow them to comfortably pick up a GT if they so deemed so, but none of them are rushing to the lots. Because? The Z06 fills that "Need to go fast" Gap both reasonably and effectivly, the GT doesnt do either. It sure isnt reasonable, and its effectivness has been dulled in the light of the new Z06.

It really didnt define ford as much as people are claiming, because if your not a enthusiasts you would be hard pressed to even realize the GT is here (because of its low build number, and rareness as a daily driver) some would mistake it for a stand of the mill GT40 (Yes i know they are rare as hell but you get the point), when the standard person thinks ford performance they think mustang, that hasnt changed and wont change unless your an enthusiast.

The Vette' is readily noticable and is quite the daily driver, given this makes the Z06 less to be noticed, but if your a vette' guy or even know the slighiest about them you can point a Z06 out, so GM definatly got what they wanted from the car.

The GT does have stying ill give you that, but again not many people will even see it, and it can EASILY be mistaken for a GT40. So i fail to see what they accomplished there, in order to have a defining car it needs to be seen, not hide in a garage for fear of the daily encounters it may endure. GM already has the name plate to sell the Corvette, the Z06 is just the icing on the cake, and its styling is quite unique as well

Well friend 5 years running and they are still around, so would you like to place a wager? I got a 1997 Corvette free and clear i'd be willing to lay out on the table for that bet, what you got?

Chris 96 WS6

Actually the ZR1's were priced in the mid $60s...but that does not diminish your point...they were still double (100%)the price of a "regular" C4. The current Z06 is about 50% more expensive than the base car.

blckbrd84

I believe he was using the pricing in today's dollars for both.

Chris

Fbodfather

Mr. McC..........I'll take your bet.

The ZR1 was north of $70,000 when it died.........this car is at that price.

FutureZMan

Yes i was, it was a considerable lunge back then.


New 2006 C6 locally is going for about $45,000 in hardtop LT version and about $48,500 - $51,000 Maxed to the roof. Only Z06 ive come across looked loaded as well, Price was $67,3xxx.

Thats a hell of alot of car for $16,000 more. Unless my maths wrong thats only about a 16% mark-up over the fully loaded 6.0 base Vette'. So in no way can the ZR1 be held in the same context as the Z06, the Z06 is an absolute steal.

FutureZMan

$70,000 back in the 1995 sure as hell aint $70,000 in 2006.

Inflation adjusted that made the Zr1 about $120,000 in todays market.

Gold_Rush

That it is. That kinda performance and overall packaging in a 65k car is unheard of.

Factor in inflation, and the ZR1 would cost about $90,000 in todays dollars. For the z06 to come in at 65k is amazing. That's a fairly drastic difference.

FutureZMan

I had it dotted at 120k but your probally right my math is so-so

Gold_Rush

I don't know if you recall the quotes/hints from Ford exec's, but Ford made it very clear i thought. Granted they didn't make it 100% official, but their intentions were still fairly clear. The fact that the concepts (they're actually fully running prototypes) were 100% drivable, used as many GT components as possible, and built with production feasibility in mind was a clue as well i thought.


.3 tenths or not, it is still on top of its segment is it not? The Challenge version of the 430 isn't out yet is it? By the time it comes out, GT would have been out of production....and hopefully a replacement in its place.

As for newer cars topping an older one, that's simple benchmarking and nothing new. The Ferrari Challenge will have that in its favor.

RussStang

Well, I for one hope to see Ford produce a GR-1. I thought the Cobra was pretty damn ugly. As for benchmarking, I agree with what you said, new cars have an advantage. That said, Ford chose a car to benchmark that had its roots in 2000, and saw very little changes since then. I don't think it is very fair to compare a 2004/2005 to it and draw the conclusions as absolute based on that. The Ford has a power advantage to the Ferrari. That 3 tenths could easily be gotten back with a differently configured road course, so to me it is not mind blowing. Not nearly as signifcant as the 4 seconds the z06 beat its competition by. I would view the Ford GT and the F430 more as equals, although a GR-1 would definetly change that.

FutureZMan

Im no insider but i dont see a GR-1 road ready until atleast 2008 model year.

Driveable concept or not. If even then.

SSbaby

Well I read the first two pages before deciding to post... IMHO, if the Ford GT had an LS7 type engine in it, it would be sooo that much better. As someone has already stated, it seems FoMoCo are incapable of producing a world-class-poor-man's engine like the LS7 or LS2 or LS1 or... Not wanting to Ford bash but at least Chrysler and GM have a logical point to prove to Ford with their NA big OHVs.

Btw, the GT is waaay overpriced because its American Rivals are more than able to match it performance wise.

Gold_Rush

I see nothing wrong with the blown 5.4 other than the weight. It's a heavy/large motor when you compare it to the much lighter and more compact Ls7. I think the only reason they went with this engine was because the Ford GT project was a rush job (completed in 18 months) and the 5.4 was the largest v8 Ford happened to have in stock and so they went with that.

But as far as power goes, it isn't short in that department. Here's the dyno results calculated at the rear wheels from the article. GT #'s are rather impressive.

GT - 535rwhp and 460rwtq

z60- 453rwhp and 411rwtq

Viper - 447rwhp and 431rwtq