This thread is really just a general rant...my last day was this past Saturday at Fedor Pontiac in Easthampton MA. In honor of my last day, when I hung balloons on the cars in the front row that morning, they were alternating white and orange It got a good laugh from my sales manager, at least. It was a sad day...decent weather, no customers to speak of, a lot full of glistening G6s, Grand Prixs, Vibes, Torrents, and one 2005 SV6 that makes one wonder how an interior can look so nice, and the exterior look so bad, for the same vehicle...

I let the other guys take most of the ups, as it was highly unlikely I'd get a same-day sale, and I don't feel like fighting with the owner to get a commission on a car sale I won't be around to deliver. The one up I took all day was a guy looking for a used Honda or Toyota...that was promising

I thought back to when I first started there, back in September 2000. GTP Grand Prixs were flying out of there, Grand Am GTs were the hot thing for a lot of younger buyers, families actually bought Montanas, and Azteks were as weird then as they are now. But there was energy. The occassional Trans Am WS6 buyer would order one. Kids were lining up to buy 2-3 year old off-lease GTPs, and our service department was ready with SLP bolt ons in hand, waiting to be sold. Even Oldsmobile was ringing in a ton of sales for us...imagine not being able to keep an ALERO in stock???

There is so little life in Pontiac these days, it scares the crap out of me. The G6 GTP is so much better than the Grand Am GT, the two shouldn't even be compared in the same sentence. I know...I owned an '02. And yet, the G6 coupe and GTP models are barely getting noticed. The GP, despite the incredible performance of the GXP, adding the blower to the GT, and lowering the sticker price, still sits on our lot like a red-headed stepchild. The heart of our lineup is DOA...

Everyone wants to see the Solstice. Everyone wants to buy a Solstice. No one can buy one, because their are none to be bought. If I had this kind of excitement for a NORMAL Pontiac product? I don't know what they'd do...make money, maybe?

Aborting the GXP G6 was a completely awful idea. While I love the G6 appearance, I can admit a little cladding may not have been a bad idea. The Grand Prix needs to be replaced with the G8 for '07...not '08, '09, or whenever GM feels like bringing it online. A "G5" will help sales, but not Pontiac's individuality. I'd love a Firebird, or a new GTO...but the heart of Pontiac lies with the G6 and the Grand Prix, and right now the GP is on life-support (how many sales are to fleet? I have seen ONE GXP on the road so far...), and the G6 gets some attention, but nothing like the far-inferior Grand Am received.

In 6 model years, I've watched Pontiac go from being the true performance division of GM with true street and sales credibility, to an also-ran that either has to lower sticker prices to insanely low levels, or give big rebates. And even then, sales are down. It seems like now, with the SRT models and some general Hemi excitement, Dodge is now the domestic line for performance? Amazing how the past 6 years has changed the car market. Where I'm heading to, they can't keep a Charger in stock...

Sounds like the Grand Prixs from 6 years ago I hope something great is coming for Pontiac, because despite the fact I'll be pushing Mopars in a few short days, I'd love nothing more than to bring home a new, mouth-watering, V8/stick "G8" for my girlfriend in a couple more years. That way, I keep the Pontiacs out of the customer's view

 

Realsitcally, the problem is that the GP and G6 overlap too much. I own a G6 and drove a GP while a business trip at the beginning of the month. Honestly, my G6 has more interior room than the GP and has MUCH better interior build quality. The only reason why the G6 gets pushed in the same catagory as the Accord or Camry is that it lacks the high HP variants that the GP enjoys. Yeah, it has the GTP, but 240HP isn't really all that earthshaking.

I guess the I'm saying that Ponitac could make the G6 so much more than it is. I really feel it's a very under-rated car.

 

A new RWD Grand Prix is really what Pontiac needs. They should be competing with the Charger. LS2 G8/GP at the same base price $29,995 as the Charger R/T. Offer a 6 speed manual and auto, Charger has neither.

I'm still pushing for a low $20K Kappa sedan, but a RWD Grand Prix is a higher priority.

 

jpolz,
I too agree the G6 is a very underrated car. I love them...I also agree with your assessment that the G6 is very close to the GP these days in terms of size and focus. The problem is the G6 grew too much, and the GP didn't grow at all for its '04+ refresh. I also agree that the G6 is hands down far superior on the inside. Even with the GXP upgrades, the G6 still feels far classier inside. If we had a 280-300hp GXP coupe? What a car that could be...we need that more than the convertible, IMO.

Z28x,
I agree that a G8 should be of the highest priority...the question is, when will it see the light of day? The GP is being held up too much by fleet sales...something that should be the trait of an Impala or a Malibu or something else...not Pontiac's performance flagship

 

its also overpriced. a GTP coupe is 30-32k and a mustang GT is 32k and even worse for the G6 is that a pony edition is 24k. those are canadian money.

 

Yeah, GM loves to screw Canucks, apparently. I believe poSSum ended up buying a US spec TB SS, IIRC, because the Canadian price was stupidly high. As a point of comparison, a Mustang GT here starts at $25k...a G6 GTP coupe starts at $23,900. While it lacks the GT's V8, it does have some niceties standard like XM, digital climate control, 18" wheels and a few other things the Mustang doesn't have. Completely loaded, its hard to get a GTP past $27,500 or so...GM has dropped the sticker price almost $2,000 since it originally set the prices on the '06 models! You can now get a GTP for the same MSRP as an '05 GT, comparably equipped...

 

I have hope for the future

 

if the GTP split the price difference of the V6 pony and V8 GT i think they might sell a few more but not at the same price.

 

Your assesment of Dodge being the current performance comany is spot on. Consider:

*You have the 500 pound gorilla, the Dodge Viper.

*You can get the Dodge Ram in no fewer than 4 performance packages, including the Rumble Bee, Daytona, Sport Pac, and the "Oh-my-God-that's-f***ing-fast" SRT-10..... in both 2 and 4 door versions.

*Dodge recently ended production of the only US car that took on the ricers, and not only got accepted, but actually whip the tar out of some kid's high priced creation.. even if he ran nitrous. Neon SRT-4.

*Dodge has the new SRT Caliper with 300 horsepower......300 frigging horsepower!!!........ Out of a four banger!

* The Charger comes in base V6 (over 230hp!), mid level R/T (340 horses...in a mid-level car!) and the SRT-8. Then also has the Road & Track version, the Daytona version, and the new Super Bee. Performance overkill? Yep.


Now, Pontiac? Ummmm. There's the Grand Prix. Blown GT and the GXP.





Dodge has the highest percentage of male buyers of any brand in the US. well in excess of 80%.

The highest percentage of women? Pontiac.

Yep.... Pontiac.

 

OMG!!!

 

I was surprised to see that Dodge's percentage was THAT HIGH, but the Pontiac fact? I already assumed that....why?

1) I have never sold a Vibe to a male...ever.
2) Of all the G6s I've sold, I don't think one went to a male.
3) Typically when I see a Grand Prix, its a female behind the wheel.
4) No male would buy a Torrent with 185hp when its priced near many other SUVs with more HP.

97Z28,
The G6 GTP DOES split the difference between the two...a Pony is $23k US or so, a GTP is $24, a GT is $25. I don't think it can split them more evenly

Despite Dodge having the male advantage, I can't see buying one...not yet anyway. The Caliber is nice, and 300hp will be sweet (full road test to come, sooner or later ), but its a wagon. I haven't seen the new Avenger yet, so I can't comment on that. The Charger is too bull-nosed, too cheap on the inside, and is too expensive IMO when you consider you have to go with the R/T and the Road and Track package to even get DECENT handling...and that's $31,500 at that point. No thanks...I'll take a GXP and live with FWD with more features for less, thanks very much...

Plus, I'm not a pickup guy, so a Ram is out. So right now, despite me being male, the girly Pontiac division at least makes 2 cars I love

 

He meant the same price as an '05 G6 GT, not an '05 Mustang GT, I think.

Remember guys, despite the snide remark by the idiots at Motor Trend, the G6 GTP coupe is not exactly a direct competitor for the Mustang GT. If it is, then so is the Honda Accord Coupe, the Toyota Camry Solara, etc. Some definite cross shopping, I'm sure, but to many people the existance of the Mustang GT does not render fwd coupes (or two door sedans, really) like the G6, Accord, etc. pointless. I mean, to many enthusiasts it does, but there are still some out there who'd like fwd, V6 fuel economy (and insurance rates), and a backseat that real human beings can fit into. But I'm rambling here.

Guion,

I don't think it is fair to list all the different sticker/stripe packages that Dodge has as justification that they are the performance brand (not saying they don't qualify, but I think the disparity isn't as big as you showed).

For Pontiac, you left off the Solstice and GTO, for Pete's sake! So, you've got:

Solstice (5 speed manual or 5 speed auto)
GTO (M6 or A4)
Grand Prix GT (260 hp s/c 3800)
Grand Prix GXP (303 hp 5.3, excellent chassis/brake package)
G6 GTP (2 door and 4 door, M6 or A4; vert coming soon)

Dodge has the Viper, yes (at a paltry $85k; M6).
Ram SRT10 (merely $50k; M6 reg cab, A4 ext cab)
Charger R/T (A5)
Charger SRT8 (A5)
Various Ram sticker packages (all with same Hemi 5.7L)...
Caliber SRT4

So Pontiac is missing the big trucks (since they don't sell any, performance version or otherwise) and the Caliber type car, but Dodge is missing out on the Solstice (unless you count the Viper, which is all but unaffordable to most mortals). Dodge also doesn't have a direct GTO type competitor (yeah, the SRT8 is as fast, but is huge, has 4 doors, and costs a lot more), though I guess the Stratus coupe could count as an enthusiast car.

Not saying Dodge is not a valid performance brand; it most certainly is. But Pontiac has a little more going on than just the Grand Prix GT and GXP.

 

Someone must get the Solstices because I saw 2 of them yesterday. One driving through Wellsboro PA where I live and one up the road outside of Wellsboro in someones driveway. I was real excited to see them and wish I had the funds to get one.

 

THANK you. I was beginning to think I had mistakenly navigated to www.luvmydodge.com

Goodie for you. Why don't you take your Dodge-fawning over to a Dodge web forum, while you're at it? Because I disagree completely with your little 'goodbye'-rant. BTW WTH is 'general Hemi excitement'

 

"General Hemi excitement" is random non-car people asking everyone who has a Dodge "does it got a hemi?"

We could debate the merits of the Dodge and Pontiac lineups, but I get the feeling that in the general populace that Dodge is just hotter than Pontiac.