Regular cab Silverado SS is a no go....
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,371
From: Kilgore TX 75662
Originally posted by Eric Bryant
4) I know that formula79 is big on talking about GM's "strategy" of slowly rolling-out the performance as a model ages, but this is going to hurt them badly. It took four years to throw a supercharger on the Wimpala, and the same amount of time to roll-out an SS version of the Silverado. If they do decide to do a real high-perf Silv SS, the platform will probably be 6-7 years old. On the other hand, the Ford Lightning came out about 2 years after the new F-150 came out, and the Dodge Ram SRT-10 appears to be on the same timeline. I do know that if I picked up a new Silv SS and then GM decided to bump up the HP a couple years later, I sure would think twice before jumping on a new model in the future.
4) I know that formula79 is big on talking about GM's "strategy" of slowly rolling-out the performance as a model ages, but this is going to hurt them badly. It took four years to throw a supercharger on the Wimpala, and the same amount of time to roll-out an SS version of the Silverado. If they do decide to do a real high-perf Silv SS, the platform will probably be 6-7 years old. On the other hand, the Ford Lightning came out about 2 years after the new F-150 came out, and the Dodge Ram SRT-10 appears to be on the same timeline. I do know that if I picked up a new Silv SS and then GM decided to bump up the HP a couple years later, I sure would think twice before jumping on a new model in the future.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by formula79
Thats another point people are missing on the price....there are no rebates on the Lightning, but you can normally get 5-7K off an SS. All GM's cars have inflated MSRP's because of the huge rebates. Lightnings on the other hand seem to be marked up some times.
Thats another point people are missing on the price....there are no rebates on the Lightning, but you can normally get 5-7K off an SS. All GM's cars have inflated MSRP's because of the huge rebates. Lightnings on the other hand seem to be marked up some times.
Think you missed the point the we are trying to make. Lightnings don't have to be discounted. Ford sells every one they make, and they keep their value. Silverado SS is being discounted because it simply isn't making the sales numbers it's supposed to. Ford is successfully marketing the Lightning & SVT compared to Chevy's Silverado SS.
As for the goon above questioning how I know stuff and that I need to learn GM doesn't make all the show cars they show...you need to do a little research into who I am. And it wasn't a twin turbo Trailblazer they made, it had a 6.0L V8....and that one also has a shot at being made.
I honestly don't believe you intended to come across that way, so just giving you a heads up.
Motor Trend Magazine in March 2002 (along with a few other mags) tested a Twin Turbo Trailblazer made by GM Powertrain that was shown at SEMA last year as a demonstration of what can be done with the engine. It's 4.2 Liters, 400 horsepower, and at the time GM was hinting at actually building it. Something they shouldn't have done if they weren't.
The 6.0 Trailblazer SS is likely to see production, but with AWD and 4 doors, $33,000 price tag, and 6.4 0-60 run, it will be priced with the Lightning, but will be no quicker than the Silverado SS without major engine upgrades. It will be far more successful because there's nothing like it, it's not insanely overpriced, and it has respectable performance.
Regarding the upcomming 395 horse 6.0, it ran just about 6 seconds to 60 with a standard cab, 2wd, and fewer options. If this is the "more powerful" engine Chevy has in mind for the current AWD Silverado SS, it's not going make any difference in top speed (governed at 110mph) and barely be noticable in acceleration.
Last edited by guionM; Aug 29, 2003 at 02:22 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 562
From: Mich.
Jesus this is the best reading Ive seen on this site in a while,Keep it up!
Im a bit shocked though,Nobody has mentioned that for a truck to be bad@$$ you have to make a showing on the TV show TRUCKS.Stacey loves the Lightning.
Im a bit shocked though,Nobody has mentioned that for a truck to be bad@$$ you have to make a showing on the TV show TRUCKS.Stacey loves the Lightning.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Originally posted by guionM
Think you missed the point the we are trying to make. Lightnings don't have to be discounted. Ford sells every one they make, and they keep their value. Silverado SS is being discounted because it simply isn't making the sales numbers it's supposed to. Ford is successfully marketing the Lightning & SVT compared to Chevy's Silverado SS.
You're slipping buddy. You almost sound like you're becoming a bit self important. When someone asks me how I know, I'll tell them if I can, or simply tell them I can't. I also try to be honest enough to admit when I'm wrong, and since we don't work directly for Bob Lutz, it's a bit improper for anyone of us to tell anyone to do research into "who we are", then slam them with name calling for asking. That's just wrong.
I honestly don't believe you intended to come across that way, so just giving you a heads up.
Motor Trend Magazine in March 2002 (along with a few other mags) tested a Twin Turbo Trailblazer made by GM Powertrain that was shown at SEMA last year as a demonstration of what can be done with the engine. It's 4.2 Liters, 400 horsepower, and at the time GM was hinting at actually building it. Something they shouldn't have done if they weren't.
The 6.0 Trailblazer SS is likely to see production, but with AWD and 4 doors, $33,000 price tag, and 6.4 0-60 run, it will be priced with the Lightning, but will be no quicker than the Silverado SS without major engine upgrades. It will be far more successful because there's nothing like it, it's not insanely overpriced, and it has respectable performance.
Regarding the upcomming 395 horse 6.0, it ran just about 6 seconds to 60 with a standard cab, 2wd, and fewer options. If this is the "more powerful" engine Chevy has in mind for the current AWD Silverado SS, it's not going make any difference in top speed (governed at 110mph) and barely be noticable in acceleration.
Think you missed the point the we are trying to make. Lightnings don't have to be discounted. Ford sells every one they make, and they keep their value. Silverado SS is being discounted because it simply isn't making the sales numbers it's supposed to. Ford is successfully marketing the Lightning & SVT compared to Chevy's Silverado SS.
You're slipping buddy. You almost sound like you're becoming a bit self important. When someone asks me how I know, I'll tell them if I can, or simply tell them I can't. I also try to be honest enough to admit when I'm wrong, and since we don't work directly for Bob Lutz, it's a bit improper for anyone of us to tell anyone to do research into "who we are", then slam them with name calling for asking. That's just wrong.
I honestly don't believe you intended to come across that way, so just giving you a heads up.
Motor Trend Magazine in March 2002 (along with a few other mags) tested a Twin Turbo Trailblazer made by GM Powertrain that was shown at SEMA last year as a demonstration of what can be done with the engine. It's 4.2 Liters, 400 horsepower, and at the time GM was hinting at actually building it. Something they shouldn't have done if they weren't.
The 6.0 Trailblazer SS is likely to see production, but with AWD and 4 doors, $33,000 price tag, and 6.4 0-60 run, it will be priced with the Lightning, but will be no quicker than the Silverado SS without major engine upgrades. It will be far more successful because there's nothing like it, it's not insanely overpriced, and it has respectable performance.
Regarding the upcomming 395 horse 6.0, it ran just about 6 seconds to 60 with a standard cab, 2wd, and fewer options. If this is the "more powerful" engine Chevy has in mind for the current AWD Silverado SS, it's not going make any difference in top speed (governed at 110mph) and barely be noticable in acceleration.
I am not self important...i just hate when I spend at least 4-5 hours a day doing car news related stuff and people people talk down to me...that is my issue...
Your argument that the Lightning needs no discounts doen't fly....
Every Chevy model has a discount...including the Corvette....so the fact that the SS has a dicount doesn't mean anything. GM prices everything high, then disounts to suit needs.
GM is in a no win situation. They price it at $34,000 and people are gonna wonder where thier discount is.
I also think everyone is blowing this market up to be way beigger than it is. I mean howmany Lightning class performance pickups are sold out of the total pickup trucks made?
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,400
From: Michigan's left coast
Originally posted by formula79
I am not self important...i just hate when I spend at least 4-5 hours a day doing car news related stuff and people people talk down to me...that is my issue...
I am not self important...i just hate when I spend at least 4-5 hours a day doing car news related stuff and people people talk down to me...that is my issue...
Your argument that the Lightning needs no discounts doen't fly....
GM is in a no win situation. They price it at $34,000 and people are gonna wonder where thier discount is.
I also think everyone is blowing this market up to be way beigger than it is. I mean howmany Lightning class performance pickups are sold out of the total pickup trucks made?
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Originally posted by guionM
Regarding the upcomming 395 horse 6.0, it ran just about 6 seconds to 60 with a standard cab, 2wd, and fewer options. If this is the "more powerful" engine Chevy has in mind for the current AWD Silverado SS, it's not going make any difference in top speed (governed at 110mph) and barely be noticable in acceleration.
Regarding the upcomming 395 horse 6.0, it ran just about 6 seconds to 60 with a standard cab, 2wd, and fewer options. If this is the "more powerful" engine Chevy has in mind for the current AWD Silverado SS, it's not going make any difference in top speed (governed at 110mph) and barely be noticable in acceleration.
The 6.0 Trailblazer SS is likely to see production, but with AWD and 4 doors, $33,000 price tag, and 6.4 0-60 run, it will be priced with the Lightning, but will be no quicker than the Silverado SS without major engine upgrades. It will be far more successful because there's nothing like it, it's not insanely overpriced, and it has respectable performance.
Price it at $33,000 and sell it for that with no discount even though most any regular TB with just a basic option package stickers at that much and more.....but can be discounted much lower?
Or
Do you MSRP the thing at $41,000 (above all the other TB models) and let in incentives and dealer haggling take it to a realistic price?
That is GM's delema...offering rebates makes it look like the car can't sell...but if you sticker it at a realistic price with no rebates it makes the rest of the TB linup that has higher MSRP's (but rebates) look overpriced.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Originally posted by Eric Bryant
Try working in the industry for 10-12 hours a day and having amateurs talking-down to you.
Try working in the industry for 10-12 hours a day and having amateurs talking-down to you.
If I went by every "GM Employee" who told me what they thought was going on and believed it, the would be plenty of errors on my site (not counting spelling).
Just because someone works at GM are for them doesn't mean they knoo future product plans either. It is not like they say "Okay everyone in the factory gather round and we are gonna tell you our 2006 product range"...it doesn't work like that
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 936
From: Butler, PA
Originally posted by Eric Bryant
You're talking to a group of performance enthusiasts and engineers, not a bunch of soulless suits with nothing on their minds but profit numbers. I don't give a rat's *** how big the market it - if GM's going to play in it, than they had better play to win or get laughed at. We've seen evidence that they can do that, which makes it all the more frustrating when they show up with vehicles that miss the mark.
You're talking to a group of performance enthusiasts and engineers, not a bunch of soulless suits with nothing on their minds but profit numbers. I don't give a rat's *** how big the market it - if GM's going to play in it, than they had better play to win or get laughed at. We've seen evidence that they can do that, which makes it all the more frustrating when they show up with vehicles that miss the mark.
-Mike
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21
From: Colorado Springs
I maybe wrong, but I think a chevy magazine bashed the Silverado SS bad by proving the SS is not the fastest truck in the GM fleet. They compared it to a reg.cab, the option composit short bed, limited slip rear, and better gears and a 5.3L. The plain jane silverado equaled or slightly beat the SS based on weight. I'll look for the article.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Originally posted by formula79
Just because someone is an engineer doesn't always mean they know what is going on. Many work on and engineer specific parts of a vehicle and have no idea what is going on with the rest...(especially with suppliers).
If I went by every "GM Employee" who told me what they thought was going on and believed it, the would be plenty of errors on my site (not counting spelling).
Just because someone works at GM are for them doesn't mean they knoo future product plans either. It is not like they say "Okay everyone in the factory gather round and we are gonna tell you our 2006 product range"...it doesn't work like that
Just because someone is an engineer doesn't always mean they know what is going on. Many work on and engineer specific parts of a vehicle and have no idea what is going on with the rest...(especially with suppliers).
If I went by every "GM Employee" who told me what they thought was going on and believed it, the would be plenty of errors on my site (not counting spelling).
Just because someone works at GM are for them doesn't mean they knoo future product plans either. It is not like they say "Okay everyone in the factory gather round and we are gonna tell you our 2006 product range"...it doesn't work like that
