So true. People like Friedman analyze the Middle East situation so closely that they miss the very basic, entirely obvious picture. There are powerful people in that region (Bin Laden, Iranian President Adjamejad, Hamas, Syrian President Assad) who are quite literally insane and/or evil.

There are of course shades of gray in this situation, as with any. However, if you focus too much on the shades of gray, you can lose sight of the fact that there still exists black and white. At the end of the day, we still live in a world in which some things are right, and some things are wrong.

It's also very interesting that Friedman manages to intellectualize the political situation of Middle East, and yet cannot grasp the subtleties and complexities present in a comparison of GM and Toyota.

 

I should follow up that I've seen two different Chevy ads this evening pushing MPG and DoD ... and not a word about the $2 gas promotion. Maybe bitching on the internet really does make a difference.

As for the political discussion, you guys are right, there's a lot of extreme nutters in the ME -- but what you're overlooking is that the US is in bed with half of them. If it wasn't for the oil, we'd have nothing to do with any of these people and they would have nothing to do with us.

 

Thats not true.

Islamic hate for our "Christian nation" has nothing to do with oil.

Its probably been the oil ties to America that have kept the Islamic extremist more at bay. But thats just my opinion and not based on much. (but just think about the moneys they potentially could have because of our oil consumption. If the person you hate is providing your monetary source....)

They see us as a Christian nation and as the one and only evil. As I understand it they launch themselves into their heaven killing themselves to fight against the evil Christian America.

 

Easy there killer. He had his number wrong. Not saying the Aveo is necessarily as well engineered as a Civic (Honda's bread and butter car, along with the Accord), but your reply came off as a shot at it, and it was in response to an erroneous post in the first place.

Aveo is more in the 2300-2400 lb range, I believe (like the Honda Fit, Yaris, etc.). The Civic has gone up in weight, just like the rest of the compacts. The current Corolla has always been impressively light, but I wonder if that will be true when the next generation comes out. I imagine it will go up some, as did the Cobalt vs. the Cavalier, new Civic vs. old, etc. New safety standards, more standard and optional equipment/features, etc.

The Aveo doesn't get great fuel economy for its size (I'd really like to see a small ecotec under the hood, instead of the engine it has now), but that seems to be at least somewhat normal with these new subcompacts. The Honda Fit gets worse mileage than the Civic, for example. Of course, these new subcompacts are sort of filling the void left as the original subcompacts keep growing in size...I'd bet the current Civic is now similar in size to an Accord of a few generations back, so the Fit is now filling in for the old, tiny Civic.



EDIT: Oh, and regarding Friedman's absolutely idiotic column (as though I'm surprised), and the "perception" problem that GM has... Perhaps if "respected journalists" like this clown would set aside their biases and report some truth now and then, the perception problem would not be so big. Advertising and commercials are part of the solution, sure. But people will be more inclined to believe something when it comes from a third party than from the mouth of the company itself. When idiots spew out nonsense like Friedman's supposedly well respected and informed opinion, what are people going to think?

 

I don't know who is been feeding you this propaganda, but that's just a load of bunk.

Maybe you should read some Tom Friedman ... or better yet one of Osama's speeches, because he actually spells out exactly why he hates our guts.

 

Uhh, judging by his "analysis" of GM, I think I'll pass. The guy might have his fingers on the pulse of the Middle East, but he's simply not qualified to comment on the auto industry. He proved that in the article in question.

Listen to one of Bin Laden's speeches? NO ONE should be listening to that guy. Every time the media puts his propoganda on television it only encourages his band of nutcases to do us harm. "Normal" folk have nothing to gain by listening to him. It's like listening to Hitler speak. What does anyone gain from that?

Our need of oil does have something to do with why they hate us, but it's one very small part. They hate our entire way of life, not just the fact that we love our internal combustion engines. I suppose the fact that we're all not as miserable as they are drives them crazy.

 

Osama! Yes, of course! ( )

Maybe while I'm out looking for other impartial political diagnosis - - I will do some light reading of Mein Kempf ( )

 

Yes, if you are actually interested in what Hitler thought, you should read Mein Kampf. (Instead of repeating stuff you heard on the 700 Club like an idiot.)

 

Why? Do you think people here are so easily infulenced that they might join his cause? Or is it just because it might prove your silly theories incorrect?

Yes, it's very convienient for you to believe that it has very little to with US political meddling, but unfortuantely, that's not the case. I'm not saying these people are in anyway rational about things, but they do have their reasons.

Anyway, talking politics on an auto board is mistake. You can get all these arguments in a better form somewhere else. I'm through.

 

Everything I needed to know about Hitler (and Osama, and Saddam Hussein) has already been written and communicated... in the sacrifice of 6 million Jews (not to mention countless other, more recent innocent victims of fascism).

 

Are you for real? I suppose if I was really interested in what the single most diabolical, genocidal sociopath of the last few hundred years had to say I'd read it. Then again, what's the point? If I want an inside look at the thoughts of a well-documented kook, I'd at least pick someone mildly harmless.

Do you not agree that they hate our way of life? I never mentioned cable TV....why did they choose to target the WTC, not once but twice? It was a symbol of America's economic might, the material things we're blessed with and our way of doing things. And yes, they also hate us because of our interest in the Middle East and our alliance with Israel. That's a huuuge reason. I'm not an idiot.

You really sound sympathetic to their cause. Wonderful.

I never intended this to end up so politically charged.

 

Z28Wilson -- sorry, I posted that and thought better of it and deleted it. You're right that there is some envy there, but that's not the primary motivator. The average middle-class Saudi has a higher standard of living than us anyway.

However, you're still a very close minded person. You have made up your mind and just want to shut out anything that disagrees. Understading the 'enemy' will only make you stronger.

 

I'm not close-minded. In fact, that's very ironic, because I choose not to listen to Osama Bin Laden's so obviously "open-minded" views....right?

Our "world-policing" has gotten us in a lot of trouble over the years. When we first attacked Iraq, I really did question in my own mind if this was the right thing to do. The problem is, because of our position in the world--economically, militarily, whatever--the U.S. will always be damned if we do and damned if we don't. We are by far the most charitable nation in the world when it comes to natural disasters, famine, etc. halfway around the world. And when we decide we probably shouldn't get involved in all the bull ___ across the pond....we get, say, a big fat dose of Pearl Harbor in 1941.

Sheesh lol. My only point originally was how assinine it was to compare GM to a crack dealer because of a silly rebate. Let's return to the topic at hand, shall we?

 

Ive listened to no less than 10 of his translated speeches to his "people."

In every one he makes it perfectly clear how they are to destroy the Christian nation that we are.

How can you invite me to listen to Bin Laden speak and in the same post tell me what I am saying is bunk. Bin Laden himself clearly says what I was saying in Every speech.

Im sorry but you dont have the ability to absorb media for face value. For whatever reason everything you bring up is as if it has some sort of spin put on it. Or some agenda.

 

Z28Wilson, my apologies for contributing to the politicization here. I'm signing off this thread out of respect for fellow members.

flowmotion - some homework 4u...

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.ph...uleId=10005143

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php...uleId=10005250

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/press/ar...ent=2006-02-08