I see your point, and I do agree...

But keep in mind, GM has gone waaaaay overboard in the direction of focus groups, too... and the result was Pontiac Aztek!


So, maybe a happy balance is in order ...

 

Good Point.

 

Well said. GM - please listen to these guys! I have seen it first hand too.

For those of you who really care enough to see some of what WERM is talking about, simply go to a Ford dealer and just pick up a copy of the Mustang sales brochure, take it home, and read the inside of the back cover.

Ford - the company - advertises for car clubs and events! They point you towards Mustang clubs (local - in your area no less!), national clubs like MCA, NMRA, and others. They have the logo and some comments about "Fun Ford Weekend" events that they sponsor all across the nation. They direct you to THIS WEBSITE where they acknowledge the car's heritage, tout it's history, and have links to aftermarket parts companies, tuners, etc.
AND ALL OF THIS is advertised in their SALES BROCHURE by Ford!
Nevermind that Ford advertises the car itself, they also advertise and support the groups that surround the car. That's an example of their committment to the car AND it's followers. To me, they learned 14 years ago that there is more to the craze than "just the car".

I won't even go into the survey cards you get when you buy a new Mustang. The efforts that Team Mustang makes to get feeback from 70+ y/o grandmas to 15-y/o boys is phenomenal.
And if you buy from SVT, all sorts of goodies and special perks get thrown in from custom leather jackets to special treatment while servicing, to invitations for track time at major speedway events - in your car.

Oh, and there are also embellishing words in the various owner's manuals about thanking you for your loyalty, appreciating your business and encouraging your feedback, and wanting you to be a "Mustang owner" for life... What a concept... loyalty.

I'm the first to admit that there are "lemon" Mustangs just like any other car, but you sure can't blame Ford for not trying or not supporting their ponycar buyers for the last decade or so. Like WERM, I've never seen anything like it. I imagine they could improve their bottom line substantially on the model if they cut-out some of the hoopla and support $ for events, but I really think they are viewing it as a long-term (infinite?) realtionship and are managing it for that goal, not just green-dollars today.

For the first time in 19 years of Mustang ownership, I REALLY don't have a major beef with anything they are doing. I've been down on the power thing for the last 8 years , but now with no F-bod and the new Cobra - I can't even gripe about that anymore.

 

UGH... I just got
OK - valid point!!! You win - no contest there. LOL!

Maybe GM's mistake with the focus groups was in their demographics? Were they asking loyal Camaro owners what THEY wanted, or were they asking housewives with 3 kids at a grocery store what THEY wanted in a Camaro? I can't answer this.

So an accurate and honest body of people need to be identified for valid feedback - but the interested PEOPLE should still get what they want to buy - agreed?

 

HMMMMMMMM?????? Something to think about!

 

I would agree.

The scary thing, though, is that from what I understand, Aztek was pretty much a result of focus groups based on the age range that it was targeted for...


But, then again, Aztek is just one example of what can happen...

 

The VERY few times anyone from GM asked my opinion on Camaros.....they were never interested in my views on performance aspects, styling or heritage.

What they were interested in is (get this!)........How many passengers I wanted to carry? ...And how many sheets of plaster board Camaro could fit in the hatch?

 

So maybe all 45,000 people that they asked, and said they like the design, now own one???

There must be some major lesson to be learned in that debacle...
I would really love to know the demographic breakdown of the groups that responded to Aztek... age, race, financial staus, job, etc.

There are also usually questions with "hidden meanings" designed into "focus group" responses that are geared to determine the persons sincerity, honesty, and likelihood of actually buying based on their responses to the same question asked several different ways. Poor qualifiers often have their responses weighted less heavily - essentially giving their responses and desires less "clout" in the overall feedback.

I'd also like to know if the Aztek was released in similar form with what the focus groups (apparently) gave overwhelming approval to when studied... sometimes the last-minute changes get slipped in ya know?

I CERTAINLY hope that GM learned from whatever went wrong in that fiasco and that it doesn't get repeated with a new Chevelle or Camaro offering... especially the Camaro.

 

Z284ever,
Are you serious?
WHO asked you this?!?! Not by name, but company, club, position, or authority?

Are you kidding me with this?

 

Lutz is about the BEST thing that GM has seen in 10 years. Except the c5 vette...

Yes the 30 year comment. But think of the focus groups this way. Lutz cares about RWD and about performance. When he came into GM, didnt he look at the 50th anniv C6 vette and immediatly scrap it because he didnt like it? I think with that in mind, with no focus groups, the people there get to have a little more freedom. I think focus groups are great, but you get a lot of input from a larger demographic, and trying to be a jack of all trades will make you a master of none. It's a hard war to win, and yes, Ford has succeeded marvelously with the mustang, aside from shooting itself in the foot with cobra problems, playing so much into loyalty and enthusiasts is a great thing. The car is a jack of all trades, good styling, good comfort, good interior, good ride, good power, good milage. It exceeds at nothing, but when most people take a look at a new GT, it has enough of what they want in everything. Like the z28 camaros, Styling was good, ride wasnt good, but power and handling was great! A lot were turned off because the ride was so harsh.

When lutz brings back some "rwd performance coupe" for GM, it will be the ace up his sleeve. The vette will always hold it's own, but Mustang Competition is strong, as well as import. But I think when the new camaro comes out, it will be a force to be reckoned with. And if Lutz and others get their way, I think it'll come flashing in under a HUGE edge of media and performance options. The 4th gens started getting some SLP mods from the factory. The Cavalier now can get a supercharger kit. Look at how GM has gotten better in the past 2 years. I think it's only going to get better.

Like a supercharged 6L c6 vette!

 

FWIW when Camaros were still in showrooms the brochures also mentioned Camaro clubs, and the Camaro section of the Chevy website has a directory of clubs in one's area. Sure it wasn't as much as what Ford does but remember that Camaro and Firebird weren't the halo cars at GM like Mustang is at Ford.

I'm happy to see that such events as Camaro Superfest and SLP's Camaro and Firebird day are still going strong for 2003.

 

Not kidding at all! No name dropping though...remember, I'm from Chicago.."I don't know nothin' about no bodddy".

But to be serious ...he/she is someone I have a TON of respect for. It just goes to show that if an absolute gearhead like that feels inclined to query an enthusiast about those sorts of issues regarding the Camaro....something was not right at GM's corporate culture.

 

Actually, there is such a thing.

As everyone here who has personally spoken with anyone in GM will tell you, GM can give no indication they are working on a replacement for the Camaro or Firebird, and are refraining from using the name on anything, including concept cars despite the fact that GM does own the name.

The "gag order" covers not just the future of the name (at the moment) but it also covers any public discussion as to why the 4th gen was discontinued outside of the official line of 'low sales".

They are permitted to say the name (notice, they always refer to the "name") will eventually come back, but no one is saying they are working on a new "Camaro". Anyone who asks about a new Camaro will get that "eventually" line.

If anyone has told you how it's not going to happen, I really, really doubt they actually work for GM.

No, I'm not making this up. Yes, I am being real.

 

Ferrari.

If the big 2 really wanted to fix things, they'd require everyone employed by the company to drive a company product. Over at Ford, that cold be an Aston Martin, but I still think this policy would help get us better cars.

 

Who really cares? I'm sure there will be plenty of other manufactures out there with cars that I'd be interested in buying the next time I'm in the market. I'm not a slave to F-bodies or any particular manufacturer.

That new Mustang coupe is looking REALLY good.....

Besides, does anybody think that Lutz will still be above ground in 3 years, let alone 30?