Chuck!

If the UAW and other unions continue to reject Delphi's proposal for lower wages, the Judge terminates the current contracts, and the unions strike, can Delphi then hire whoever they want outside the union and push the union out?

In the depressed economic area of Dayton, OH, they could find more than enough people to work for ~$12.50 / hr plus benefits.

I guess the whole situation is a good opporunity to learn how Chapter 11 works in general.

HAZ-Matt

This is an interesting question.

guionM

I believe they are also cutting over 20,000 jobs as well.

Josh452

23,000 of 35,000 jobs will be cut.

Wow......just wow

Ken S

another thing it wonder about, is if GM is going to be liable for any of the healthcare costs for the bankrupt Delphi.. It can be anywhere from 0, nadda, zip... to $11 BILLION dollars.. wow..


http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...A01-343339.htm


either way, articles are saying that a strike at Delphi right now, would put the hurt both on Delphi and GM.

90rocz

Anytime a Union of workers go out on strike, the company can hire outside to fill those jobs. But that will take valuable time and resources to hire, re-train, and bring new workers up to speed, especially if they haven't been exposed to the high speed Auto Assembly lines. Then, quality will be an issue, at least for a learning period, of which they'll undoubtedly be a high turn over.
Asking workers to work at those speeds, that continously, maintaining high quality for just a few dollars more than a Taco Bell or Dept Store pays, will make it difficult to keep them. Especially if they get laid off every 2-3 years, screwing with their finances.( I know...)
Of course, they could hire more people, giving them less responsibilities, and still pay a little less for the labor, tho insurance and workers comp might stay similar.

guionM

If they are cutting 23,000 or 35,000 jobs, and a strike will shut down the company permanently throwing everyone out of work, and if the government has to assume the pensions of Delphi retirees will only get a fraction of what they would if the company remains intact, I can't help but to wonder how much of this union bluster is hollow.

They most surely understand the situation, so I'm starting to think ego or worry about setting a precident for future negotiations is playing a huge role here.

90rocz

Well, think of your current job...What if you were asked to accept a cut in your wages and benefits by 2/3's...Could you survive? Would it be worth the sacrifice to you to preserve that job?
I think when faced with this severe of cuts, "many"(maybe no the majority) would rather them close the doors and get retrained or just find other work. Many Union workers are told at every contract negociation, that there are communities just waiting to have a company as theirs pack up and move to their community. Where the factory will be built for free, or nearly, and recieve tax breaks for a decade or more...I just keep thinking, "why even tell people that?, if the offer is that good, it'd be stupid not to move...", so there must be more to it than that.
I personally wouldn't work a UAW assembly line, from my own experience, for $12-$13/ hour....I know I could find a less monotonous, less stressful job for the same or more money.
But you're partially right guionM, any time negociations are involved, each side stonewalls, but then gradually works toward the middle. Neither side are naive.

detltu

The only good news for delphi in the event of a strike is they don't have to replace 33,000 workers, only about 10-12K. The delphi upper management has really screwed the pooch with the way they have handled their pensions, severence packages etc. for their upper management. They really reinforced the us versus them mentality that Blue collar workers feel towards upper management already(this is true in most instances where unions are involved). This should instead be a time for everyone in the company to band together to save delphi. Everyon should be making some sacrifices for the good of the company. Instead we have upper management in a showdown with hourly workers and it doesn't bode well. The whole thing is a very tricky situation and it will be interesting to see how it comes out.

detltu

Your absolutely right that accepting a 2/3rds pay cut is too much to ask. I don't think that 12-13$ an hour is a bad wage for the kind of work they are doing though and the current situation of the company( I know thats not exactly what you said). I don't understand why some of these people aren't just trying to find other work unless they realize how good they really have it right now and are hoping Delphi will cave and thier life won't change too dramatically.

90rocz

Contrary to what many believe, .(Not saying you in particular..)they don't just "turn some screws". I know even from my factory, there are many jobs involving: dangerous heavy hoists with multiple remotes, added time contraints, watching out for people's safety and your own, lifts, lift trucks, heavy lifting, multiple air tools and hand tools, power tools, and a barage of parts to keep track of, and paper work etc....Nothing is ever as simple as it appears

As long as upper management is insulated from the effects of such cuts, they'll continue to be the trend. I know they make some sacrifices but, 1/2 of $100K+ isn't the same as half of $50K.(the average wage is roughly only $25/hr, btw.) The latter puts you at or below the poverty level for a family. And cuts in benefits, further cut viable wages from the family income(s) to cover medical etc...not to mention losing time towards retirement there.
The cuts are deeper than face value.

And You're right, many realize they can't find another job at the level of compensation, especially in this area, at their age or level of education. It's industry wide, and scarey as He!!...I believe many will suffer the cuts to hold onto any hopes of a decent retirement.
It's sad, but I think Red nailed the reforms that need to take place, in the other thread, before we'll see real change.

guesswhoo

Your right, ITS WAY TOO MUCH!
Its easy for people who sit behind a computer at work all day to say (I am not directing this to you, so please do not take it so) " They are over paid!!!" They have not a clue. Esspecially if they have not worked for the Big 3 in the last 3 years. Times have changed, Things have changed...Boy have they changed....


I can disagree with you all day and night here...


When they get done paying for their insurance (Delphi workers if they accepted the deal) would be bringing home less then half of what they do now. They will have to pay somewhere near 5K-7K a YEAR (If I recall right) on their healthcare off that 12.50 per hour

(Basing this on a 48week year,Youll see why in a second) Using 6K as a example that is $125 a WEEK. Take that out of a 40hour work week they will have a check for $375 BEFORE TAXES, Which translates to $9.37 per hour.... For the stress that is so overlooked by the media. Its not even worth it.(Keep in mind their paid time off-christams break and shutdown are eliminated )

I would not do it."Hit this unattainable number"

I would rather go back and bust my butt @ carpet laying (And I highly respect those gentlemen who lay carpet, Thats a very tuff job!Been there and done it)