View Poll Results: Do oil/energy companies "fix" or manipulate pricing?
Yes - unquestionably.



39
73.58%
Maybe a little.



10
18.87%
No - not at all.



4
7.55%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll
Price-Fixing of Fuels - Does it happen or not?
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby :
My first thought on this....the arguement above was that the electric industry WAS regulated, and because of its success, oil should follow suit?
My first thought on this....the arguement above was that the electric industry WAS regulated, and because of its success, oil should follow suit?
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby :
Second, the article itself stated that "But competition, especially for residential and small business customers, rarely emerged." I'd suggest this is key.
Second, the article itself stated that "But competition, especially for residential and small business customers, rarely emerged." I'd suggest this is key.
Gas stations don't count, there's little they can do to compete, other than a few cents. They're just pimped out by big oil. There's no way to start an oil company and compete. Just like the days of the East India Company, things like; permits, specialized research, rediculous EPA and safety standards, insurance etc...pricing everyone else out of the buisness.
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby :
And third, is electricity considered a "commodity"?
And third, is electricity considered a "commodity"?
Websters:
1: an economic good: as a: a product of agriculture or mining b: an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment <commodities futures> c: a mass-produced unspecialized product <commodity chemicals> <commodity memory chips>
2 a: something useful or valued <that valuable commodity patience>; also : thing, entity b: convenience, advantage
3obsolete : quantity, lot
4: a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (as brand name) other than price
5: one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market <stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry
2 a: something useful or valued <that valuable commodity patience>; also : thing, entity b: convenience, advantage
3obsolete : quantity, lot
4: a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (as brand name) other than price
5: one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market <stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry
On top of all of this, there's seems to be a rivalry between the Big Oil and the Fed, to manipulate the world currencies to their respective advantages...the Feds recent cuts are likely to bring in even higher inflation. And the $150Tril. economics pkge, money we don't even have, will likely bury us further...And we wonder where Americans learn to spend money they don't have until they go bankrupt?(Hint: a big white house.)
even worse:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111501842.html
"The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.
Last edited by 90rocz; Feb 11, 2008 at 12:40 AM.
One question that I always wanted to ask but was waiting until 5thGen touched on it...
Who controls Iraq's oil fields now that Saddam is no longer in control of the country? I'd assume the US govt is in control to some degree?
AND whoever is in control of Iraq's oil fields, is the controller fixing prices there?
Who controls Iraq's oil fields now that Saddam is no longer in control of the country? I'd assume the US govt is in control to some degree?
AND whoever is in control of Iraq's oil fields, is the controller fixing prices there?
The US Gov't hasn't controlled the fields in a long time. They do, however, push for more production.
90rocz....it is quite obvious that we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum on this one.
But anyway....
Where is all the competition in oil? Gas stations don't count, there's little they can do to compete, other than a few cents. They're just pimped out by big oil. There's no way to start an oil company and compete. Just like the days of the East India Company, things like; permits, specialized research, rediculous EPA and safety standards, insurance etc...pricing everyone else out of the buisness.
That said, once again, you're dealing with a global commodity. The US oil companies can do little to set the price of oil
I'd say so.
Websters:
Websters:
Is electricity pulled from the ground? Is it a natural resource? Is it traded on world markets? Is there any competition - at all?
On top of all of this, there's seems to be a rivalry between the Big Oil and the Fed, to manipulate the world currencies to their respective advantages...
the Feds recent cuts are likely to bring in even higher inflation. And the $150Tril. economics pkge, money we don't even have, will likely bury us further.
1) It is $150BIL, not Trillion
2) Politicians have done it before, and we've survived
3) It's is nothing more than election year pandering to get votes (or at least not lose votes)
4) It is OUR MONEY ANYWAY. Whenever the Gov't wants to give back some of the money they took from me, I'm all for it. Of course, the problem is that they won't cut spending to make up for it (and that certainly applies to both sides of the political aisle).
..And we wonder where Americans learn to spend money they don't have until they go bankrupt?(Hint: a big white house.)
Definition of 7 year old news.
But let me ask you this....
You're going to come up with a national policy for....I don't know...the blanket industry. What "experts" are you going to seek out for advice on the blanket industry? Other politicians? Someone in the coal business? Milk distributors?
Stories like that (good or bad for whatever administration is in office) should be examined VERY CAREFULLY for political motivations. The press can be just as "corrupt" and power-hungry as the Gov't that you want to let run our lives.
Bob
PS....expect oil to go up today.... http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
....but it will be the evil Exxon/Mobil's fault. After all, Hugo's a great guy that only wants to give us cheap heating oil!
....but it will be the evil Exxon/Mobil's fault. After all, Hugo's a great guy that only wants to give us cheap heating oil!
One question that I always wanted to ask but was waiting until 5thGen touched on it...
Who controls Iraq's oil fields now that Saddam is no longer in control of the country? I'd assume the US govt is in control to some degree?
AND whoever is in control of Iraq's oil fields, is the controller fixing prices there?
Who controls Iraq's oil fields now that Saddam is no longer in control of the country? I'd assume the US govt is in control to some degree?
AND whoever is in control of Iraq's oil fields, is the controller fixing prices there?
But it is not sufficient just to accept an 'oil connection,' we should also ask — whose oil-motivated interests was the Iraq War meant to advance? Was it about feeding the addiction of the USA's gas-guzzling SUVs? Or was it about advancing the interests of US-based international oil companies (IOCs), long since locked out of access to Middle East oil?
A different but related question is: what oil-related interests have in fact been advanced by the Iraqui War and occupation? To the extent that near-record oil prices are in part a result of the War, then massive profit increases for the IOCs have certainly been a major effect of the invasion, if not a provably intended one.
In 2003, US spokespeople were blunt about the Iraq invasion being only a start in 'transforming' the Middle East. But was it also about rolling back OPEC? Partly as a result of the 1970s 'OPEC Revolution,' National Oil Companies (NOCs) now own and control more than 80 per cent of global oil reserves while the formerly dominant 'majors' (the IOCs) hold only around 10 per cent.
Was the Iraq War also about ensuring that the US forever has its hands on the oil (and gas) spigot as part of a geopolitical strategy to permanently dominate global politics?
For instance, was a prime purpose establishing permanent US bases in Iraq, thereby consolidating US control over the Middle East, Iran, and beyond — to the increasingly important oil and gas provinces of the Caspian basin and Central Asia?
There is a case to answer on all these charges. But there are also internal conflicts, policy inconsistencies and unintended consequences — which should not be surprising, given the disarray in US foreign (energy) policy.
In the real world there are Government conspiracies, and there are also ****-ups — the two possibilities being by no means mutually exclusive. The Iraq War perfectly exemplifies the ****-up scenario: multiple unintended outcomes adding up to fiasco, quagmire and a major loss of US international prestige.
Is the sharp increase in oil prices then, at least partly an example of such an unintended consequence of the US's Iraq plan gone wrong? And if so, in what ways?
For some influential neo-conservative proponents of the Iraqi War, bringing about a collapse in the price of oil was the central motive.Their explicit purpose was to privatise the Iraqi oil sector as part of a wider plan to turn the economic system of 'American Iraq' into a Middle East bridgehead for extreme neo-liberalism. That this was masked as 'building democracy' is especially ironic given that not even consultation was involved, let alone the approval of any Iraqi Government.
In this scenario, collapsing the price of oil would be achieved by rapidly expanding Iraq's oil capacity from 2 million barrels a day (Mb/d) to 6+Mb/d. Supposedly — as rashly promised by then Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz — this would enable Iraq's 'transformation' to be self-financing. In this impossible dream, as a new dominant major oil producer, Iraq would tend to sideline Saudi Arabia; some of whose citizens, unlike Iraqis, were actually implicated in 9/11.
http://www.newmatilda.com/2007/11/27...-or-conspiracy
A different but related question is: what oil-related interests have in fact been advanced by the Iraqui War and occupation? To the extent that near-record oil prices are in part a result of the War, then massive profit increases for the IOCs have certainly been a major effect of the invasion, if not a provably intended one.
In 2003, US spokespeople were blunt about the Iraq invasion being only a start in 'transforming' the Middle East. But was it also about rolling back OPEC? Partly as a result of the 1970s 'OPEC Revolution,' National Oil Companies (NOCs) now own and control more than 80 per cent of global oil reserves while the formerly dominant 'majors' (the IOCs) hold only around 10 per cent.
Was the Iraq War also about ensuring that the US forever has its hands on the oil (and gas) spigot as part of a geopolitical strategy to permanently dominate global politics?
For instance, was a prime purpose establishing permanent US bases in Iraq, thereby consolidating US control over the Middle East, Iran, and beyond — to the increasingly important oil and gas provinces of the Caspian basin and Central Asia?
There is a case to answer on all these charges. But there are also internal conflicts, policy inconsistencies and unintended consequences — which should not be surprising, given the disarray in US foreign (energy) policy.
In the real world there are Government conspiracies, and there are also ****-ups — the two possibilities being by no means mutually exclusive. The Iraq War perfectly exemplifies the ****-up scenario: multiple unintended outcomes adding up to fiasco, quagmire and a major loss of US international prestige.
Is the sharp increase in oil prices then, at least partly an example of such an unintended consequence of the US's Iraq plan gone wrong? And if so, in what ways?
For some influential neo-conservative proponents of the Iraqi War, bringing about a collapse in the price of oil was the central motive.Their explicit purpose was to privatise the Iraqi oil sector as part of a wider plan to turn the economic system of 'American Iraq' into a Middle East bridgehead for extreme neo-liberalism. That this was masked as 'building democracy' is especially ironic given that not even consultation was involved, let alone the approval of any Iraqi Government.
In this scenario, collapsing the price of oil would be achieved by rapidly expanding Iraq's oil capacity from 2 million barrels a day (Mb/d) to 6+Mb/d. Supposedly — as rashly promised by then Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz — this would enable Iraq's 'transformation' to be self-financing. In this impossible dream, as a new dominant major oil producer, Iraq would tend to sideline Saudi Arabia; some of whose citizens, unlike Iraqis, were actually implicated in 9/11.
http://www.newmatilda.com/2007/11/27...-or-conspiracy
It’s the Oil
Jim Holt
Iraq is ‘unwinnable’, a ‘quagmire’, a ‘fiasco’: so goes the received opinion. But there is good reason to think that, from the Bush-Cheney perspective, it is none of these things. Indeed, the US may be ‘stuck’ precisely where Bush et al want it to be, which is why there is no ‘exit strategy’.
Iraq has 115 billion barrels of known oil reserves. That is more than five times the total in the United States. And, because of its long isolation, it is the least explored of the world’s oil-rich nations. A mere two thousand wells have been drilled across the entire country; in Texas alone there are a million. It has been estimated, by the Council on Foreign Relations, that Iraq may have a further 220 billion barrels of undiscovered oil; another study puts the figure at 300 billion. If these estimates are anywhere close to the mark, US forces are now sitting on one quarter of the world’s oil resources. The value of Iraqi oil, largely light crude with low production costs, would be of the order of $30 trillion at today’s prices. For purposes of comparison, the projected total cost of the US invasion/occupation is around $1 trillion.
Who will get Iraq’s oil? One of the Bush administration’s ‘benchmarks’ for the Iraqi government is the passage of a law to distribute oil revenues. The draft law that the US has written for the Iraqi congress would cede nearly all the oil to Western companies. The Iraq National Oil Company would retain control of 17 of Iraq’s 80 existing oilfields, leaving the rest – including all yet to be discovered oil – under foreign corporate control for 30 years. ‘The foreign companies would not have to invest their earnings in the Iraqi economy,’ the analyst Antonia Juhasz wrote in the New York Times in March, after the draft law was leaked. ‘They could even ride out Iraq’s current “instability” by signing contracts now, while the Iraqi government is at its weakest, and then wait at least two years before even setting foot in the country.’ As negotiations over the oil law stalled in September, the provincial government in Kurdistan simply signed a separate deal with the Dallas-based Hunt Oil Company, headed by a close political ally of President Bush.
...
This is the ‘mess’ that Bush-Cheney is going to hand on to the next administration. What if that administration is a Democratic one? Will it dismantle the bases and withdraw US forces entirely? That seems unlikely, considering the many beneficiaries of the continued occupation of Iraq and the exploitation of its oil resources. The three principal Democratic candidates – Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards – have already hedged their bets, refusing to promise that, if elected, they would remove American forces from Iraq before 2013, the end of their first term.
Among the winners: oil-services companies like Halliburton; the oil companies themselves (the profits will be unimaginable, and even Democrats can be bought); US voters, who will be guaranteed price stability at the gas pump (which sometimes seems to be all they care about); Europe and Japan, which will both benefit from Western control of such a large part of the world’s oil reserves, and whose leaders will therefore wink at the permanent occupation; and, oddly enough, Osama bin Laden, who will never again have to worry about US troops profaning the holy places of Mecca and Medina, since the stability of the House of Saud will no longer be paramount among American concerns. Among the losers is Russia, which will no longer be able to lord its own energy resources over Europe. Another big loser is Opec, and especially Saudi Arabia, whose power to keep oil prices high by enforcing production quotas will be seriously compromised.
Then there is the case of Iran, which is more complicated. In the short term, Iran has done quite well out of the Iraq war. Iraq’s ruling Shia coalition is now dominated by a faction friendly to Tehran, and the US has *****-nilly armed and trained the most pro-Iranian elements in the Iraqi military. As for Iran’s nuclear programme, neither air strikes nor negotiations seem likely to derail it at the moment. But the Iranian regime is precarious. Unpopular mullahs hold onto power by financing internal security services and buying off elites with oil money, which accounts for 70 per cent of government revenues. If the price of oil were suddenly to drop to, say, $40 a barrel (from a current price just north of $80), the repressive regime in Tehran would lose its steady income. And that is an outcome the US could easily achieve by opening the Iraqi oil spigot for as long as necessary (perhaps taking down Venezuela’s oil-cocky Hugo Chávez into the bargain).
And think of the United States vis-à-vis China. As a consequence of our trade deficit, around a trillion dollars’ worth of US denominated debt (including $400 billion in US Treasury bonds) is held by China. This gives Beijing enormous leverage over Washington: by offloading big chunks of US debt, China could bring the American economy to its knees. China’s own economy is, according to official figures, expanding at something like 10 per cent a year. Even if the actual figure is closer to 4 or 5 per cent, as some believe, China’s increasing heft poses a threat to US interests. (One fact: China is acquiring new submarines five times faster than the US.) And the main constraint on China’s growth is its access to energy – which, with the US in control of the biggest share of world oil, would largely be at Washington’s sufferance. Thus is the Chinese threat neutralised.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n20/holt01_.html
Jim Holt
Iraq is ‘unwinnable’, a ‘quagmire’, a ‘fiasco’: so goes the received opinion. But there is good reason to think that, from the Bush-Cheney perspective, it is none of these things. Indeed, the US may be ‘stuck’ precisely where Bush et al want it to be, which is why there is no ‘exit strategy’.
Iraq has 115 billion barrels of known oil reserves. That is more than five times the total in the United States. And, because of its long isolation, it is the least explored of the world’s oil-rich nations. A mere two thousand wells have been drilled across the entire country; in Texas alone there are a million. It has been estimated, by the Council on Foreign Relations, that Iraq may have a further 220 billion barrels of undiscovered oil; another study puts the figure at 300 billion. If these estimates are anywhere close to the mark, US forces are now sitting on one quarter of the world’s oil resources. The value of Iraqi oil, largely light crude with low production costs, would be of the order of $30 trillion at today’s prices. For purposes of comparison, the projected total cost of the US invasion/occupation is around $1 trillion.
Who will get Iraq’s oil? One of the Bush administration’s ‘benchmarks’ for the Iraqi government is the passage of a law to distribute oil revenues. The draft law that the US has written for the Iraqi congress would cede nearly all the oil to Western companies. The Iraq National Oil Company would retain control of 17 of Iraq’s 80 existing oilfields, leaving the rest – including all yet to be discovered oil – under foreign corporate control for 30 years. ‘The foreign companies would not have to invest their earnings in the Iraqi economy,’ the analyst Antonia Juhasz wrote in the New York Times in March, after the draft law was leaked. ‘They could even ride out Iraq’s current “instability” by signing contracts now, while the Iraqi government is at its weakest, and then wait at least two years before even setting foot in the country.’ As negotiations over the oil law stalled in September, the provincial government in Kurdistan simply signed a separate deal with the Dallas-based Hunt Oil Company, headed by a close political ally of President Bush.
...
This is the ‘mess’ that Bush-Cheney is going to hand on to the next administration. What if that administration is a Democratic one? Will it dismantle the bases and withdraw US forces entirely? That seems unlikely, considering the many beneficiaries of the continued occupation of Iraq and the exploitation of its oil resources. The three principal Democratic candidates – Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards – have already hedged their bets, refusing to promise that, if elected, they would remove American forces from Iraq before 2013, the end of their first term.
Among the winners: oil-services companies like Halliburton; the oil companies themselves (the profits will be unimaginable, and even Democrats can be bought); US voters, who will be guaranteed price stability at the gas pump (which sometimes seems to be all they care about); Europe and Japan, which will both benefit from Western control of such a large part of the world’s oil reserves, and whose leaders will therefore wink at the permanent occupation; and, oddly enough, Osama bin Laden, who will never again have to worry about US troops profaning the holy places of Mecca and Medina, since the stability of the House of Saud will no longer be paramount among American concerns. Among the losers is Russia, which will no longer be able to lord its own energy resources over Europe. Another big loser is Opec, and especially Saudi Arabia, whose power to keep oil prices high by enforcing production quotas will be seriously compromised.
Then there is the case of Iran, which is more complicated. In the short term, Iran has done quite well out of the Iraq war. Iraq’s ruling Shia coalition is now dominated by a faction friendly to Tehran, and the US has *****-nilly armed and trained the most pro-Iranian elements in the Iraqi military. As for Iran’s nuclear programme, neither air strikes nor negotiations seem likely to derail it at the moment. But the Iranian regime is precarious. Unpopular mullahs hold onto power by financing internal security services and buying off elites with oil money, which accounts for 70 per cent of government revenues. If the price of oil were suddenly to drop to, say, $40 a barrel (from a current price just north of $80), the repressive regime in Tehran would lose its steady income. And that is an outcome the US could easily achieve by opening the Iraqi oil spigot for as long as necessary (perhaps taking down Venezuela’s oil-cocky Hugo Chávez into the bargain).
And think of the United States vis-à-vis China. As a consequence of our trade deficit, around a trillion dollars’ worth of US denominated debt (including $400 billion in US Treasury bonds) is held by China. This gives Beijing enormous leverage over Washington: by offloading big chunks of US debt, China could bring the American economy to its knees. China’s own economy is, according to official figures, expanding at something like 10 per cent a year. Even if the actual figure is closer to 4 or 5 per cent, as some believe, China’s increasing heft poses a threat to US interests. (One fact: China is acquiring new submarines five times faster than the US.) And the main constraint on China’s growth is its access to energy – which, with the US in control of the biggest share of world oil, would largely be at Washington’s sufferance. Thus is the Chinese threat neutralised.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n20/holt01_.html
Last edited by SSbaby; Feb 11, 2008 at 05:18 AM.
There is indeed "dirty money" everywhere. But there are certainly opinions that differ from left-wing opinions you posted above.
You are welcome to believe that we are solely after the Iraqi oil all you want, if that is what you wish. I don't, and I was there. I served as a Plans Officer on the staff of the Civil Affairs Brigade that ran these sorts of things through most of 2006. The idea that we're trying to take their oil is simply looney-tunes.
On the flip-side, the idea that we'd like to see a steady, stable stream of Iraqi oil on the world market is absolutely true.
Bob
You are welcome to believe that we are solely after the Iraqi oil all you want, if that is what you wish. I don't, and I was there. I served as a Plans Officer on the staff of the Civil Affairs Brigade that ran these sorts of things through most of 2006. The idea that we're trying to take their oil is simply looney-tunes.
On the flip-side, the idea that we'd like to see a steady, stable stream of Iraqi oil on the world market is absolutely true.
Bob
I recall something about Cheney setting the nation's energy policy back when GWB took power.
The Dems in Congress wanted to see the policy but they were not allowed access to it.
I thought it went to the Supreme Court where it was decided that they had no right to see the policy. I believe that it was the current incarnation of the Court that made that ruling (by that I mean with Bush's two court appointees).
Why is Congress not allowed to see the nation's energy policy?
What is Cheney hiding in that policy?
Why does he (and the White House) not want the Congress to see the policy?
If that doesn't smack of a conspiracy, I don't know what does.
It's reasons like the one above why most people believe that oil and gas prices are being fixed.
The Dems in Congress wanted to see the policy but they were not allowed access to it.
I thought it went to the Supreme Court where it was decided that they had no right to see the policy. I believe that it was the current incarnation of the Court that made that ruling (by that I mean with Bush's two court appointees).
Why is Congress not allowed to see the nation's energy policy?
What is Cheney hiding in that policy?
Why does he (and the White House) not want the Congress to see the policy?
If that doesn't smack of a conspiracy, I don't know what does.
It's reasons like the one above why most people believe that oil and gas prices are being fixed.
Why is Congress not allowed to see the nation's energy policy?
What is Cheney hiding in that policy?
Why does he (and the White House) not want the Congress to see the policy?
If that doesn't smack of a conspiracy, I don't know what does.
It's reasons like the one above why most people believe that oil and gas prices are being fixed.
If there's nothing to be ashamed of, why not make it public?
IMHO, one should be skeptical of anything and everything the Gov't does. NEVER stop questioning.
That said....we still don't have a real "Energy Policy". Probably won't for a while, as it is a highly politicized subject.
Time for me to bow out of this one. FWIW, I voted "Maybe a Little", and would have voted "Some" if that choice were available.
Bob
That said....we still don't have a real "Energy Policy". Probably won't for a while, as it is a highly politicized subject.
Time for me to bow out of this one. FWIW, I voted "Maybe a Little", and would have voted "Some" if that choice were available.
Bob
It's only dirty money because the reasons told to the public for starting the war were different from the actual reason.
The US is held hostage by OPEC. Basically they tell us what to pay, we pay. They have threatened shutting off the supply or limiting it, and have in the past. If they shut it off, we shut down. Shutting off our oil supply would shut down our economy and our ptroductivity.
If this was well known, the US could have stated "we're overthrowing Iraq's dictatorship for many reasons, some of them being,
1. Killing thousands of people (with chemical weapons supplied by the US)
2. Failing to co-operate with NATO
3. Suppressed people
4. Oil, we need, it, they have it, OPEC is holding our *****, and squeezing.
If Iraq gets on it's own two feet and kicks the US out, they have control over a lot of oil. They can join OPEC and become part of the problem. However, Good ole boy GWB & Company assign their personal ace in the sleeve Haliburton to run the whole deal. Then, no matter what country controls it, Haliburton is already established and will run the oil production, if Haliburton feels they are being pushed, they can lower production, or threaten to cut off the supply.
It should have been set up as a deal sweet for both parties. We come in, set up the infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, water & power) and the oil refineries, they sell to us at 50% the going price. They make profits from oil and can re-invest into their economy. We get cheap oil. We also get bases in the country and are stationed there to prevent attacks, takeovers.
Instead, we hand off BILLIONS of dollars in NO-BID contracts to private companies and they are the ones who make the money. Thanks Gee Dubb and the Chen(ey) Gang!
The US is held hostage by OPEC. Basically they tell us what to pay, we pay. They have threatened shutting off the supply or limiting it, and have in the past. If they shut it off, we shut down. Shutting off our oil supply would shut down our economy and our ptroductivity.
If this was well known, the US could have stated "we're overthrowing Iraq's dictatorship for many reasons, some of them being,
1. Killing thousands of people (with chemical weapons supplied by the US)
2. Failing to co-operate with NATO
3. Suppressed people
4. Oil, we need, it, they have it, OPEC is holding our *****, and squeezing.
If Iraq gets on it's own two feet and kicks the US out, they have control over a lot of oil. They can join OPEC and become part of the problem. However, Good ole boy GWB & Company assign their personal ace in the sleeve Haliburton to run the whole deal. Then, no matter what country controls it, Haliburton is already established and will run the oil production, if Haliburton feels they are being pushed, they can lower production, or threaten to cut off the supply.
It should have been set up as a deal sweet for both parties. We come in, set up the infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, water & power) and the oil refineries, they sell to us at 50% the going price. They make profits from oil and can re-invest into their economy. We get cheap oil. We also get bases in the country and are stationed there to prevent attacks, takeovers.
Instead, we hand off BILLIONS of dollars in NO-BID contracts to private companies and they are the ones who make the money. Thanks Gee Dubb and the Chen(ey) Gang!
There is indeed "dirty money" everywhere. But there are certainly opinions that differ from left-wing opinions you posted above.
To that end, I will make this one post, then no more on the political issue.
If we are discussing stance, location, and theory... I have a question to poise to all...
Why is it that the left-wingers are the ones that are always the conspiracy theorists, and the ones accusing the right wingers of foul play?
Likewise, why is it that it is always the right-winger that is caught and convicted of the largest, most hanous financial/fiscal crimes?
I mean... really.... Ken Lay and Dennis Kozlowski (the biggest and one of the biggest contributors to GWB campaign) go down for 10s of million$ in fraud and extortion. Reagan was queried for Iran/Contra arms for money deal (but Ollie took the fall). Scooter Libby... Newt Gingrich... Jack Abramoff... We won't bring in Rummy or Gonzales because they left "on their own" - albeit under fire and investigations.
What do we hang on the Dum-Dum Dems... Carter was guilty of holding hostages in Iran and slowing down interstate speeds. Slick-***** got a ****-job and lied about it. Was tried for Whitewater but was cleared. But what did they steal? What did they take? Who did they hurt?
I can throw some scandal and malice up on the table about Dems too, but generaly speaking it's more policy or activity/procedure related, scandals or illegal activity that involves the turnover of big cash or monies tends to flow down the right side of the river FAR more than it does on the left. And honestly, oil is money.
Trends are trends - I don't make them, I just see them.
Hence, I'd be a little cautious about calling the kettle black if it is indeed a very dark color to begin with.
Maybe a left-wing source is still not a bad one if they are reporting facts that can be validated, and may still be a good read if they are clearly stating their opinion as an opinion.
IMHO, one should be skeptical of anything and everything the Gov't does. NEVER stop questioning.
That said....we still don't have a real "Energy Policy". Probably won't for a while, as it is a highly politicized subject.
Time for me to bow out of this one. FWIW, I voted "Maybe a Little", and would have voted "Some" if that choice were available.
Bob
That said....we still don't have a real "Energy Policy". Probably won't for a while, as it is a highly politicized subject.
Time for me to bow out of this one. FWIW, I voted "Maybe a Little", and would have voted "Some" if that choice were available.
Bob

Likewise - if the population ever becomes afraid or intimidated to the point where we DON'T question... we're finished. We may as well live in China or Russia.
And don't bow out. Your opinion and research is as valid and interesting as anyone else's, and I appreciate the fact that you "give a sh1+" enough to post on the subject.
This issue may look like a witch hunt or even a ghost chase, but in all honesty it affects the very cars being produced right now, the future of vehicles in general, and even our everyday lives. It will be interesting to bookmark this thread and pull it back up in 3 or 4 years to see what transpired compared to what we thought would.
Perspective in politics is a matter of who's in power at the time. I seem to remember more than one lefty that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, too (Marc Rich, anyone?); life would be a lot easier if only members of one party were guilty of stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. With regards to our actions in certain Middle Eastern countries over the past few decades, we'd be better off if we could admit that oil is a huge motivating factor behind our actions. Since we can't, we the public get served a lot of excuses. Oh well, it works out for the government, because we then entangle ourselves in a lot of arguements that totally miss the point.
The idea of a "secret" public policy should be justification for criminal prosecution in a republic democracy. I mean, really - that's just insulting.
Nope, its turned too political, and especially when dealing with the Iraq War (which is personal to me), I don't want to get into it in this forum. I will say that the reason we care about the Middle East, in general, is absolutely because of the oil. It is not the main reason we went into Iraq.
I will add that I now drive more efficient vehicles for day-to-day commuting, and am building an ICF house that will be heated & cooled with Geothermal. If/when I can afford it, I'll add a wind turbine or two too. IE...I'm going to do my part instead of putting politicians in office that will enhance the nanny state we are quickly becoming.
Have a good one.
Bob
PS....I thank God - literally - that W will be signing my Letter of Appreciation this summer and not Obama or Hillary.
I will add that I now drive more efficient vehicles for day-to-day commuting, and am building an ICF house that will be heated & cooled with Geothermal. If/when I can afford it, I'll add a wind turbine or two too. IE...I'm going to do my part instead of putting politicians in office that will enhance the nanny state we are quickly becoming.
Have a good one.

Bob
PS....I thank God - literally - that W will be signing my Letter of Appreciation this summer and not Obama or Hillary.
Do I think ExxonMobil or BP are the only ones doing it? No.
Are they hostage to a supply side issue in the form of crude? Yes.
Are they doing anything that other companies are not doing? Doubt it.
In my opinion, the law of statistics and the human nature combined seem to mandate that price manipulation and/or controlling is all but inevitable.
It's the degree of severity by which oil/gas prices is affecting EVERY American right now that concerns me most. Fleecing me $25 on a pair of designer jeans is not good, but it's my option to buy them over a basic pair of $15 jeans with a no-name label on them.
Fleecing me $40/week on gas I need to go work, school, buy groceries, etc is another story, and is the root of my concern.
Right or wrong, there's my vote and reasoning behind it.

