There is some confusion though...

GM started working on a ponycar contender back in 1964 as soon as they saw the Mustang was going to be a hit. Spy "sketches" first start appearing in magazines as early as 1965, however it that car was named Panther, Chapparral and others as late as 1966. The "Camaro" did not come into being until June of 1966 and was launched to the public in September of 1966 as a 1967 model. If the 5th gen is launched in 2007 as a 2008 model, then technically it will be the 41st anniversary... but it will be the 36th year of production.

Now if it is launched in 2006 as a 2007 model, then guesswho will be correct... however wouldn't we have seen it by now?

 

For something like the return of a classic, I would expect GM to keep EVERYTHING in the dark until the exact last second. Nothing sooner. I'm still betting on an '07 model.

 

Yea, the 301 was a different casting. It was meant to be a lightweight block, which means they took alot of metal out of the walls. You couldn't build them up worth a damn.

The blown 301 was basically the old block if I remember correctly. It was probally lower in deck height due to a shorter stroke, but was still the same length, and save for the marginally lower deck height, took up the same space as the 455.

I remember reading a story back then that said early in development, the 301 turbo engine developed hairline cracks in the cylinder. I also remember that the turbo 4.9, with piping, weighed more than the T/A 6.6 it was supposed to replace. It also got worse gas mileage, lower power, and came with only an automatic.

Personally, I still say early 2007 as a 2008, because GM not too long ago seemed to have finalized that as the target.

But, I'm not going to dispute the year Johnny posted. He picked up info that I couldn't, and a certain someone seems to believe Camaro will be out in time for it's 40th anniversary. It's also pretty common knowledge that Chevrolet is pushing for 2007 bigtime.

Guess we'll see soon.

 

Not only was it a weaker "thin wall" casting....the block was about an inch shorter....so, no hi-po parts would bolt on.

Better heads would physically bolt to the block, but because of the shorter deck height, the intake manifold wouldn't fit. Pontiac gave up alot, to save...I think it was...about 30 lbs out of the block.

It would have been interesting to see how things would have gone had Pontiac continued development of it's 301 Turbo though. The same engineers that were turbo-ing the carbed Buick 3.8 were applying the same systems and tech to the Pontiac 301.

Even shortly before Pontiac V8 production ceased ....Pontiac was trying to get the 301T into the 3rd gen, to be the exclusive Trans Am's powerplant.

Now THAT would have been interesting.........

 

oh thank god that didnt happen. Bad enough the 305 was kept. I still dont understand why GM didnt keep the 302. You would think it would be much cheaper making just 1 block with 2 cranks. Oh well... hind site is 20/20.

 

Sure, the 4.9 turbo was no barn burner.....but it was the V8 equivalent to the early 4 bbl 3.8 turbo.....and look at what the 3.8 became.

Remember, the same team was developing both of these packages. If we follow the evolutionary timeline, it would be plausible to think that the 301 would have gotten a revised turbo system, ECM, SFI and intercooling.

If the 301T had continued to be developed....with the same upgrades and revisions as the 3.8T, it would have been a monster!

You think that turbo Regals violated the Corvette rule? Just imagine what a fully developed TURBO 4.9 T/A would have been like, in a 3rd gen Trans Am! 275HP? 300HP? 325HP? 350HP?

You pick the number. It would have made the GNX look like your grandma's grocery getter.

And it would have been Pontiac powered........

 

While I don't think power would have been quite that high, it would have been interesting you're right about that. I still wish that special edition 92 Anniversary L98 car would have came out.

 

I doubt that much power, but I think by 85 and the introduction of TPI, the 301T would have gone the way of the rest of Poncho motors. It would have been quick, probably a lot quicker then a TTA. Im not 100% clear on the 301 motor and what the specs were, so I am gunna leave it at its possible.

My quest is to find out why the 302 wasnt the replacement for teh 307 and then for the 305? Or why when GM was looking for a cheap engine to produce that wouldnt guzzle gas, but make moderate power, why teh 302 was never brought back? The 350 was still there, so the block was there. All they had to do was make a new crank. I know why the 302 was made, but why when searching for a new block did they come up with the 305?

 

A destroked 350 (like a 302) would have had some emissions issues. The 305 shared the 350's crank but had a smaller bore....3.74 inch vs 4.00 inch. The 305 bore/stroke ratio gave it an exceptional ability to meet emissions and power/fuel economy requirements.

Maybe alot of people don't want to give the 305 much respect....but if you talk to some powertrain engineers who were around when it was developed....they'll tell you it was the best thing since sliced bread.

 

This is true. The Third-Gen T/A was designed for the Turbo 301 originally - that's why it has a "Turbo" hood - like the late 2nd Gen. Turbo T/A. From everything I've read, it came pretty close to making it to production, but wasn't enough business case for it.

I agree that if the Turbo 301 had stayed in production, it likely could have become a decent motor. It was a little underbaked in its released form, but another 3-5 years of production, with fuel injection and improvements in Turbo technology and it could have been a real contender for the time. Heck, as maligned as the 1980-81 TTA seems to be (when compared with what came before and since) it was one of the faster new cars you could buy in those years. I've also read that the Non Turbo "T/A 4.9" 80 and 81 cars with WS6 are some of the best handling second gens.

 

I can't find the story right now....

But, Car & Driver did a best handling car test in '79 or '80. Chevy sent an L-82 Vette, Ford sent a Mustang, can't remember what Mopar sent. Pontiac shocked everyone by sending a WS6 4.9 T/A (4.9 was the lightest motor available).

Guess what! The T/A cleaned everyone's clock in handling....even the Corvette's.

I remember people talking about that test for weeks.

 

Now... you just got done saying that people who didn't get the 6.6 T/A weren't into cars and were just in it for the image...

But, the 4.9 was the bets handling in this group... maybe some folks like that?

 

That was a WS6 T/A 4.9 coupe. Not a base suspensioned, T-Top, optioned ladened pig.

BTW, I think that test was made after the W72 T/A 6.6 was gone.

 

So much grey area...

 

Oh, im giving the 305 respect. As a matter of fact, Im giving it some respect with a ZZ4 cam, ported heads and a few other goodies in about 20 mins.