SVT won't be allowed to outperform the Ford GT until it's sold every unit as well. SVT is on Fords payroll still. IF those engines are going to hit, they will not UNTIL after all the Ford GTs have been sold and even after that the Shelbys WILL be limited production high dollar cars like the BOSS and Cobra Rs.

 

Would it surprise you, if the model line-up paradigm of the last half of the 4th gen....is probably destined to never repeat itself.

In other words...rethink which motor goes where.

 

Oh, and the "Powertrain Performance Build Center" is now official.

From a GM press release:


FOR RELEASE: December 17, 2003

CONTACTS

GM's Powertrain Performance Build Center To Produce Performance Engines



PONTIAC, Mich. - GM Powertrain plans to produce performance engines at a new manufacturing site located in Wixom, Mich., to be called the GM Powertrain Performance Build Center.

Ed Koerner, vice president of engineering operations, announced plans for the build center today. "I am very pleased to announce that GM will have a facility dedicated to building high-performance engines. A small but very passionate group of customers wants and demands vehicles with uncompromising levels of performance. The new Performance Build Center is dedicated to satisfying these customers."

GM is investing approximately $10 million in the facility. UAW Pontiac Local 653 will represent Wixom facility hourly employees, who will come from other GM locations. Site preparations began in spring 2003, with start of production planned for summer 2005.

GM Powertrain is a global producer of engines, transmissions, castings and components for GM vehicles and other automotive, marine and industrial OEMs. Headquartered in Pontiac, it has operating and coordinating responsibility for GM's powertrain manufacturing plants and engineering centers in North America, South America, Europe and the Asia-Pacific region.

 

We're misunderstanding each other here.

Having detuned (or rated less on paper) VARIATIONS of the current 600hp (yes it's really over 600hp) GT motor in the Lightning and Cobra in no way, shape, or form means they will outperform the GT. The Lightning weighs in close to 5000lbs and the Cobra is a high end model on a budget pony car chassis.

There is no way, even with the exact same GT motor either could outperform the GT.

Can the Ram SRT-10 with the EXACT same engine as the Viper outperform it? Nope. And there it is, on sale for $45K next to $85K Vipers. Same thing going on here. There WILL be 2006 models of 500+hp Lightnings and Cobras regardless of whether the GT is still being produced. And no, neither will outperform the GT.

Even an NA V10 Shelby could go on sale side by side with the GTs, as it would also NOT have a chance of outperforming the GT.

Now a SC V10 Shelby would definitely horn in on GT performance.




There's one paradigm that ain't going out of style any time soon. And that is that NO camaro is ever going to outperform ANY vette. So.... your ceiling happens to be the base 400hp 6.0 vette.

Nothing at all to do with what the blue oval boys are doing.

 

Who says the base Corvette will still be at 400 HP in 2007 when the Camaro comes back?

Furthermore I absolutely expect that we get more than a 300 HP V8 for the "base V8" Camaro. Hell we had ~350 HP in the 4th Gen version. The way things are going by 2007 300 HP is going to look pretty pedestrian.

 

I understand where you're coming from hp_nut. I understand that both the Mustang and the Lightning will be heavier, less aerodynamic, and aren't mid-ship engined(road course). But I completely believe we won't see any of the Shelby engines or engine from the GT in the Lightning until after the year or couple years afterward that the GT goes on the market.

Z28 Wilson we didn't have a 300HP 4th Gen BASE Camaro. We had a 200hp V6. I have one, it's a black fish with T-tops and a 5 speed. The BASE V8 Camaro is called a Z28.

 

Uh, isn't "base V8" what I said?

 

Well I guess you're hoping the base vette is a 500hp 7.0 by then. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Now it might look more like this.

Camaro RS - 5.3L 300hp
Camaro Z/28 - 6.0L 400hp
Camaro SS - 6.0L 425hp(exhaust, shifter, handling)
base '07 C6 - 6.0L 435hp



Well we have Dodge doing it right now.

Plus Colleti has as much as confirmed the powerplant and hp for the 2006 Lightning. If the GT can't exist with Lightnings running SC 5.4 3/4V motors making 500hp, then I guess it won't exist. I disagree that that's the case, though.

 

300HP for the 5.3L seems really low, the current truck spec (9.5:1)Gen III 5.3L in the SSR is 300HP. I'd hope the LS4 would at least have LS1 compression (10:1) and cam. I think 325HP would be reasonable.

THe GP 5.3L form SEMA had 350HP



320HP for the 6.0L would be a big step backwords I don't think any Camaro 6.0L should be under 360HP, They can't have a 2007 6.0L Gen IV putting out less than the 5.7L Gen III did in 1997 (345HP)

 

Either you missed my point...or I missed yours.

 

There may be a 6.0 of lower performance than the LS2. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually puts out 360 hp....and be rated at hhrrrrrpppp....320.

Remember the "310 hp" () Z/28 motor.

 

What changes would be made to the lower end 6.0L? 9.1:1 compression? I hope it runs on regular gas.

 

Not sure about specifics. But, I guess we can compare the differences between the LS1 and LS6 to get an idea. Cam, heads, valvetrain, exhaust.

BTW...I think tuning it to run on regular unleaded is a good idea.

 

Base Mustang will have a V6, that is a fact. I can see the first engine as a standard GT motor, while a the second on a Mach 1. The 3V 5.4 I don't think will make it to the Mustang. Is say the current GT motor in a 40-50k Cobra. Then either Boss 351 of GT500 with the 351 V10 in the 60k Z06 price range. I don't see them making a Mustang that competes against a 100k Vette. They will leave that up to the GT, becuase a Stang to compete against the 100k Vette would be in the low 90k and that would cut into GT sales and that won't happen. It is easier to up the power in the GT and have it compete against the Vette.

What I am waiting for is a Charger from DC. I think it will come out, but I think they are waiting to see how the GTO does in sales, see that will be its competition. I could also see them fiting a Charger into the same 40k price range of the GTO.

 

Maybe not.

If for some reason, a re-tuned version of the current Cobra motor (350 hp, or so), doesn't become the Mach1 motor, I could see the 3V 5.4 taking it's place.

Also, after the idea of a 5.0 mod motor died...but before all of this Shelby business had been confirmed....there was talk of two versions of the Cobra.

A 4V 5.4 of around 400hp, priced at the same price point as the current Cobra, and a high end Cobra with the GT's SC 4V 5.4 that would sell for over $40K.