Maybe Pontiac should not even offer FWD. Make every single one of their cars either RWD or AWD. They are supposed to be the "peformence" division, and FWD is not the best route to achieve driving perfection IMO. Also, to be a "peformence" divsion, a manual tranny should be offered with every engine and option combonation on every single car.

Also, if Pontiac wants to be taken seriously as the "excitement" division, every single one of their cars needs to be a hoot to drive, they need to be a lot more fun to drive then the competiton. Now they don't neccisarly need more HP in their cheap models because this would drive up the price, but they definetly need to up the handling. The base G6 should have a stiffer suspension and more precise steering.


All I am saying is that Pontiac really needs to make itself different from other GM divisions by offering a SIGNIFICANTLY more sporty driving expericene. If this drives away some of their current customers, so be it. If they do their products right, they should attract a different and new customer.

 

To those who think that any Pontiac AWD car with a 280hp+FI V6 would cost under 30k, get it out of your minds.
Pontiac can STILL continue to follow the Excitement track. I think that Z28 doesnt like Zeta at all, either for a Camaro, or as a chassis all together!
A V6 GTO? Pontiac would be laughed at. Its the most powerful, fastest, best handling, best everything GTO ever, and for 05, they upped eveything, and people laught at it!
Putting in a lower hp V6, on top of power robbing AWD, and THEN slap a GTO badge on it! HAHAHAH!
You guys crack me up! I think you all need a little time away from CZ28, spend it with your friends and family, and come on back to the real world.
An AWD, 280hp G6 coupe would STILL be at least 2 years away from NOW, and we would never have had a GTO under your plan. And do you know how much it would have cost? I bet you mroe then a 05 GTO does.
So, after thinking about lala land and super Epsilon cars, NO. I want the current state of Pontaic to continue.
Bring on the Zeta coupes and sedans bringing in RWD performance, with teh ability of AWD combined with the power of GM's Gen IV V8's.
Bring in the Torana/Beta as a replacement for Epsilon for Pontiac and Saab, or start bringing in the Epsilon cars up to spec with the FWD imports with high HP DOHC V6's making north of 260hp WITHOUT the use of turbos or blowers.
Start bringing in go-kart handling, and clean interiors.
Lets start building excitement again.

 

Sorry, Jason, I was thinking primarily halo car, you know the car that brings people into a dealership just to look. Maybe I should wake up before posting.
While the Bonneville may be the best Pontiac out there (and I know a lot of people who might argue that) it doesn't excite a lot of people.
Heck, the Grand Prix seems to have a more rabid following. Just check out the national GP forums.
Not saying anything against the Bonneville. It can do well as a flagship car. In fact it does well to show what Pontiac can deliver but something like the GTO can be more exciting to a lot of people.

Remember a lot of this is opinion. And most of this post is just mine.

 

Well first, this thread isn't about Zeta. Second, what's wrong with imagining what Pontiac might have been like, had it not imported the Monaro as the GTO?

Five years ago, this is what we expected to see a GTO badge on :

http://motortrend.com/future/concept...0002_pontiacg/

262 hp, $20,000. Lots of people were really excited about it. Do you think that adding another 70-100 hp, AWD, a new chassis and calling it GTO would have been more controversial than importing the Monaro as the GTO?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

That is an absolutely brilliant idea. I sold a ton of last gen Auroras, and LOVED the interiors of them...they were by far the best GM interior at that time. I wonder how much a retrofit would cost...

zhawk,
No problem, and you're right...GPs have a VERY rabid following for good reason. They're big, comfy, stylish and in GT and GTP form decent handling and quick or really quick. I know I love mine.

 

Suburu sells a good number of cars with AWD and prices them within the "magic" $20,000 to $30,000 range. I don't see why Pontiac could not have done the same thing. Could you economically convert the Epsilon G6 to AWD? Was Epsilon ever designed to be AWD?(If GM didn't design this chassis to have AWD in the future, they are remarkably shortsighted) The FWD Bonivelle is on its way out, to be replaced by a Zeta-based sedan, hopefully. When they re-do the Grand Prix in a few years, maybe they could make it AWD too. Also, maybe Pontiac could have a 20-25K AWD version of the Cobalt, hopefully avaiable with the supercharged Ecotec motor.

 

As has been discussed on here before, the Bonnie and GP wont probably exist again, and will be combined into one Zeta car.

And WHOM expected to see that plastic-cladded turd to wear GTO badges? I know I didnt, and I know Im not alone on this board.
And Id like to see how that car would cost 20k, when a 3.4 Grand Am alone costs above that IIRC.
I think that turning a FWD GA on the very dated N body, or even an AWD Epsilon chassis would have purists and non-purists up in arms more then they were with teh GTO, which in all reality wasnt too long.
The 04 GTO shut everyone up when they posted the best times ever of any GTO...only thing that could be brough agaisnt it was design and lack of sales, which when you break it down, its not that bad.
If a supercharged V6 AWD coupe were to enter the market with a GTO badge, yes I belive 10000% that there would be an uproar more then you saw. At least this GTO follows the line of GTO's in the past. Only thing that would save that would be that it would go up against the STi and Evo, and approach a totaly different group of buyers then the present GTO does, yet the cost on both would be about the same, if not more for the AWD Epsilon car.

 

"Plastic cladded turd"? Why Al, I'm surprised you'd say that. This was, afterall, a car made by GM.

The Grand Am SC/T created lots of buzz back then. The messages that Pontiac telegraphed, were that such a package was under serious consideration.....and GTO was a name being considered. Every show season from the mid-90's on, displayed a different supercharged GA concept from Pontiac....with hints of a GTO name purposely dropped by Pontiac, no one was outraged.
As far as the $20 grand price...Pontiac sure pushed the fact that this was the target price point. Not unreasonable, when you consider that the more sophisticated Cobalt SS will go for $22K, 5 years later.

I spoke to a couple of people in the media who had driven this concept, and an earlier SC Grand Am. They loved it, especially for the price. One even told me that this was a car that he would consider purchasing.

Not saying that the current GTO strategy is right or wrong....but the original GTO was so successful because it was an affordable $295.90 package (RPO 382), on any Lemans two door, (coupe, convertible, hardtop).

If the SC/T package were called GTO, and added...say..$1,500 to any Grand Am, there may have been some outrage from certain segments, (maybe even the same ones who don't like the current GTO).....but I believe that ultimately, it would have sold in large numbers, especially with a choice of M5 or A4.

 

I have made my hatred for GM's products pretty clear on several threads.
I cannot imagine that the press would take this GA GTO over the present GTO, nor can I imagine enthusiasts reaction to the GA GTO, when the idea of bringing the Monaro over here with an LS1 and worlds better everything was floating around.
In fact, it scares me to think that people inside GM existed to create such car.

 

I may report this to a moderator.

I think someone has stolen Big Als Z ID number and is posting under his user name.

If that's you really you Al, I'm shocked at the intense hatred you have for this pretty neat GM concept. This was way before the Monaro was created from the Commodore's loins....let alone the '04 GTO.

You mean to tell me, that if a SC 3.5, 5 speed package was available on your Maxx...for a reasonable price...you wouldn't have considered it?

 

Are you saying Pontiac could not do it? or GM marketing would not let them do it? Add a $1995 Versatrak AWD setup to the current $27K GTP and you have a $29K AWD FI V6 Pontiac for under $30K, add that is before massive rebates. AWD and a S/C 3.5L shouldn't add more than $4000 to the MSRP of a G6, it all depends on whether they want offer it on modestly equipped or fully loaded G6's.


Z284ever, I see what you are saying about multiple halos, but the GP GTP and Trans Am got along just fine. Why can't a 280+HP AWD G6 and 400HP GTO? I would think there would be room for a number of sub-300HP cars in Pontiac’s lineup. The sub-300HP GXP car won't even come close to touching a GTO.

400HP LS2 GTO
LS4 Grand Prix
S/C 3500 G6
Turbo Solstice
3900 V6 Aztec replacement
LS7 Montana GXP

 

Oh, on the contrary, I think a 280 horse AWD G6, fits in beautifully.

I just don't think that a turbo 360 hp, AWD coupe, which costs the same as a GTO, and performs similarly to a GTO, would work for Pontiac right now. Although mechanically different and possibly appealing to a different audience, I think it would compete too closely with GTO in Pontiac's showroom.

 

If there was such a package on the Maxx, I would go for it....

But if they cut off 2 drs, and slapped a Camaro badge on it, would you be cool with it?

A neat concept..yes. A GTO? No. THAT, my friend, is where I have the problem. I was never ever ever a fan of Pontiacs cars durring the 90's, except for the TA...which even still urks me due to all the swoops, scoops, and wings they dressed that thing up in.

Id love for a G6 GXP to have a 270hp 3.6 with 6spd, combined with AWD, and I think that it would be a GREAT car for a super line up. Deffinatly would bring Pontiac into a new light.

 

I agree with you there then. I think the only Pontiac products that should cost over $30K are the LS2 GTO and a Zeta LS2 Sedan. I'd love to see a Kappa 1 series sized sedan with a turbo Ecotec for about $25K, and Solstice coupe.