I agree with most others on here, what Pontiac wanted to do back in the 60's doesn't matter anymore. The Firebird has "pony car" stamped all over it and it has always been a 2+2 rwd v8. Keep the Solstice name and make a new Firebird alongside a new Camaro. The Camaro can perfectly fill the void (like it always has) between the SS performance cars and the Corvette for Chevy and the Firebird can fill the void in between the Solstice and the GTO.

But naming the Solstice a Firebird

 

Actually the Pontiac Banshee concept of the mid 60's had I believe an OHC 6 cylinder engine. The styling of this car became the 68 Corvette. Delorean left Pontiac to become GM at Chevy division, may explain this cars transformation. The link to a 2 seater is there, but GM is mistaken if they think we will settle for Miata performance.

 

Just because DeLorean wanted the Banshee to be the Firebird doesn't make it right to make a new Firebird like the Bamshee.

DeLorean wanted a Pontiac Corvette. That's why the Banshee looked like a 'Vette. GM didn't want another division to have a Corvette, so the Banshee was killed.
But GM said Pontiac could have a version of the upcoming F-body.

The Firebird,, as we know it, was born as an F-body.
And it needs to stay true to it's roots.

It would be nice if it had a different V-8 than the Camaro but that's just not to be.

And what's the difference between a '02 T/A and a '69 T/A in relation to the same year Camaros?

The Firebird always had a few different body panels, a different dash and seats, and was a bit more upscale.

The only change came when the Firebird lost it's Pontiac V-8.
Otherwise, the Firebird has been what it always was. A version of the GM F-body.

 

I can see how some of you would oppose Firebird taking on a new formula. I'm just barely sitting on this side of the fence on this one.

But I really see no point to a future "Camaro clone" Firebird. It'll step on the toes of both the GTO and Camaro.

WHERE IS IT'S SEGMENT?

As HuJass mentioned, there is probably no chance of differentiation via different engine choices/families anymore. Different engines used to make Firebird different....but there was more. For example, 2nd gen Trans Ams had different suspension tuning, different brakes and that all important "shaker hood". People considered them to be different products, with a different image....eventhough they were built on the same assembly line.

Would a 5th gen Firebird...as a sister car to Camaro....be able to have such an image? The answer is no. Camaro shoppers would also shop Firebird, perhaps choosing one or the other because they prefered a specific fascia. Camaro/Firebird would be...as they were in the 3rd and 4th gen....completely interchangeable.

You might argue then..."just leave it dead". Well why? Why wouldn't Pontiac use one of it's most recognized nameplates to sell a new and different RWD sporty car?

 

Plus the new GTO will likley be the basis for the Camaro....though there will be more differention size and looks wise than I think people are expecting. The cool think is that the GTO and Camaro will kinda be set up to cover different markets also. The GTO will be a V8 only halo car starting in the mid to high $30Ks....the Camaro will have a V6 version starting around $20K and probaly top out at $35K...just under the price of entry on a GTO. With the solstice coming on board and likely to be a 14 second capable car...there is really no point in engineering a Camaro sibling Firebird....GM already has too much product overlap.

I say as long as the Solstice looks good and is capable there is no reason not to call it a Firebird. Pontiac has never been good with keeping names and there heritage intact anyway. The Grand Prix went from being a huge two door coupe to being a 4 door performance sedan. Looks at the Lemans name and what they did too.

Personally I think ig GM makes a car that can take out the S2000 (one of the hottest cars with young people and tunders today), and calls it Firebird they will have a genuine hit.

 

I would rather see the name evolve then die. The Firebird hasn't been a true hit since 1979. It's whole niche is being a more expensive, baddased Camaro. Well the GTO is going in that spot, so it has to eveolve or dies. I don;t see why Firebird guys are so worried. Before there was no chance of teh car coming back...and now there somewhat is. Anyway...not like it's possible to make F-body depriciation any worse...

Has anyone did a trademark search on "Solstice"? I wonder if that is why they are not using it.

 

In all reality, if you want to use a retired nameplate, then Fiero makes more sense than Firebird. Unfortunately it has baggage attatched to it.

I'd rather have a new name. Solstice is nice....I think it communicates Balance.

How about I just throw some names out....Pontiac Pursuit, Pyre, Phantom, Pheonix...Point is there are a lot of good names they could use.

 

I couldn't agree with with you more, Formula79 Well said.

 

I agree with Branden and Z284ever. Before DeLorean tried to make the Firebird a two seater it was a series of turbine powered two seaters. Plus, who's to say that in the future the Firebird name couldn't come back as a true muscle car? This would give the name some flexibility. (Though I would hope that they never go the FWD route.) Once the GTO was announced I really wondered where that left the chances of the Firebird as we know it making a return.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe K. 96 Zeee!!
[B]
How about I just throw some names out....

Pontiac Pursuit
Being used on the Cobalt pontiac

Pyre
like the name but never heard it on a car

Phantom
Probably to much like Pheaton(sp) a new VW

Pheonix
This is what the firebird is.

Just my take on this.

 

LOL....I knew pursuit was familiar for some reason!

Pheonix just came to mind as a sort of bridge for Firebird without calling it....Firebird.

 

OK.
The brakes were the same on both F-bodies. The 4-wheel discs came earlier for the T/A, but they became available on the Camaro. I would bet that the same suspension set-ups could be had on both cars. Maybe not in the same years, but the same nonetheless.
If you were to go to your local autoparts store, and looked up all sorts of parts for both the Camaro and Firebird, for the 1st two gens, you would find that most parts are the same.

Like I said before: they've always been the same save for a few different body parts, different dash and seats, and earlier, different engines.

So what's changed? They both have the GM corporate V-8.
And beyond that, you Camaro guys are nervous that the Firebird will take away too much development money from the Camaro.

Let's look at it differently. If the Firebird was definately coming back and the Camaro's future was up in the air, you guys would be screaming bloody murder.

And another way. How would you feel if the Firebird were coming back in it's proper form and people were commenting that the Camaro should come back as something else? You'd be p***ed!!

What makes us Firebird guys different than you Camaro guys.

Some here suggest that Firebird enthusiasts will just switch to Camaro. Some will. But not the majority. I for one would not switch.

Some make the claim that we have the GTO to fill the gap left by the Firebird. Well you Chevy guys have the Corvette.

To me, there is less product overlap with the GTO and the Firebird. The GTO is a quick, comfortable 2 door sedan that can seat four comfortably. The Firebird is a low slung sports car.

The Camaro is a 4 place low slung sports car where just about nobody uses the back seat (effectively making it a 2 place, low slung sports car). The Corvette is a 2 place, low slung sports car.

What they should do for you Chevy guys is to come up with a cheaper version of the 'Vette, like the one they hinted at just before the C5 came out. That would satisfy the need to have a cheaper sports car.

Just because the price is closer between the GTO and Firebird doesn't give them the same mission in Pontiac's line-up. I'm convinced that people who want a GTO will not be interested in a Firebird and vice versa.
Just on this board alone, many people said that the GTO is nice, but it's no F-body. It's not supposed to be.

The Camaro and Corvette have a much closer mission than the Firebird and GTO do.

I have no problem with the Solstice. I think it's a great vehicle that GM desperately needs. I'm happy as heck that Pontiac will be getting this car. But this car is no Firebird.

The Firebird and Camaros were always sisters and always should be.

 

I'm sorry but I do not see how the Firebird truly "comes back" as a 2 seat 4 cylinder car.

Yes, I'd much rather see the name Firebird never be used again as opposed to putting it on a car that has little to nothing to do with its heritage. In the end I strongly believe you're setting the Solstice up for failure if you call it Firebird. Firebird guys are repulsed by it. The others who always viewed "Firebird" with silly stereotypes laugh at it. So who are you selling to now?

 

Think of it this way...you may feel that way as an older buyer who grew up with the Firebird...and many Firebird owners feel that way....but GM most likely don't care...and here's why....

1. The Firebird will not be a Camaro sibling ever again...at least as long as the GTO is around. It would simply be bad business.

2. There really aren't that many hardcore Firebird guys out there (In comparision to the Firebird or Mustang)..think about it...how many 5th Gen Firebird threads are there....the Firebird guys that are out there are generally in an older, more affluent age group(since the Firebird was pretty expensive). They may be upset....but I think GM is waggering (correctly) that most of them guys will get over it and buy GTO's and Camaros....and the ones that jump ship are not large enough in number to justify making the Firebird a GTO clone.

2. The 98+ T/A was always called "boy-racerish" by the mags. The car was among the most desired cars in my school....and among most of the people in thier 20's I know. Now think about it....cars like the S2000 are all the rage with the import and tuner crowd. Crazy as it sounds...a $20,000 roadster I think really hits the sweat spot in the youth market. Most young people don't have families...so a two seater is not an issue...and the 4 cylinder is economical and fits in with whats cool. Berate the 4 cylinder's performance all you want...but if the Pontiac roadster came in somewhere in the S2000's weight range with the touquier supercharged engine...plenty of V8 Trans Am's from the past will be put to shame.

I mean we can talk a bout heritage and how things were in the past all we want...but I would rather see the Firebird being all the rage on the youth scene like the S2000, than dead. Older buyers may not like it...but GM will have plenty of other RWD V8 performance for you.

 

I understand the idea here... but if such a car is to go after the young, that's all the more reason to ditch the Firebird name. That name no doubt carries baggage that might not appeal to the sport import crowd. They would instead respond to a new-age type name like 'Corona' (yes I know it's already a beer name) or a new alphanumeric abbreviation name like on the Acura RSX.

I'd rather not see the Firebird name cheapened by a lightweight low-torque wonder....