Everything in a car contributes to the overall feel of it, not just appearance. If something looks different, you feel it's excitement? How do you define excitement? One thing I said in one of the posts was "driving dynamics". You can't dispute that Compass/Patriot/Caliber does not drive the same as Mazda 3. Neither does the non-SS Cobalt. Nor Focus. This was one area that was dominated by Honda in the 90's. Now it appears that Mazda has the best driving dynamics of the 3 Japanese brands.

And no, I didn't change the course of the conversation, I simply added another dimension to it. Europe has a lot of small cars. It has much greater variety than we do here. It has many exciting small cars, which deals with appearance, interior look and feel, as well as driving characteristics. Also, Europe has a lot of crappy cars, they're not exciting.

We in North America don't have nearly as many "exciting" offerings as the Europeans do. The big 3 are trying, yet they are mixing too much "North-Americanism" into their formula. That's why Mini, Mazda 3 have such good reviews - they use a different formula. Chrysler did very well in the excitement division with the Neon when it came out in mid 90s.

Europe is also smaller, its cities are denser, the streets are narrower, and the gas is significantly more expensive. All these things contribute to the overall lifestyle of Europeans. In the US, all the factors were pushing our lifestyle in the opposite direction, until gas hit $4 per gallon. However, that still remains the only factor in people's shift toward smaller cars.

I firmly believe that if there were more exciting choices for the public in the compact car segment (and even sub-compact), more people would shift toward them. We haven't reached that point yet, but it appears the industry is definitely heading in that direction.

 

The Focus was considered a good handling and fun to drive car when it came out - even in base trim. It's just a generation behind now. If we had the current Euro Focus, it would drive pretty darn close to the Mazda 3 since they are essentially the same car.

But you're right - that wasn't a priority for Ford. Since small cars weren't selling, why not limp along with the current Focus. However, now that the small car market is heating up and the facelifted Focus is selling very well, Ford is starting to see value in selling their European product here.

GM definitely needs to include sportier handling for the Cruze out of the box. The best I can say for my Cobalt LS daily driver is that it's competent, but certainly not exciting in any way.

 

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Also, keep in mind, magazines and some internet sites purposely streach facts or subtract or distill explanations in order to generate impact, catch your attention, and generate hits (or magazine sales).

First of all, current plans do not have Pontiac selling exclusively small cars. That was an oversimplification.

Secondly, Pontiac is still going to be something of a Holden USA.

Third, Pontiac is still likely to be the excitement division.

A few items.

The G8 line is going to continue for the life of the current edition Holden Commodore. There's good money on it continuing when the Commodore is redone in a few years. Exports keep the Fishermans Bend plant running, so G8 isn't going anywhere for the immediate future.

The original article stated that Pontiac's sales will come primarily from small cars. The G6 is currently one of GM's top 3 selling cars. It's due for a restyling in a couple of years. I wouldn't be a bit surprized to see a version of it being sold at Holden (the low US dollar makes it cheaper to make cars in the US than in Europe). Pontiac is expected to get a car smaller than the G6, which as someone mentioned already, Pontiac wasn't scheduled to get.

Finally, the idea that selling more samll cars is independent of excitement is simply hogwash. Excitement isn't exclusive to big cars, V8s and rear drive. Spend a few minutes behind the wheel of the Neon SRT4 or a Cobalt SS. Some of you have poked fun and belittled the idea, dismissing it as "Tuner". That's a pretty ignorant position and here's why.

1. Tuners are in with youth. V8s are more the domain of older people. You aren't going to have a 21 or 22 year old buying a Camaro SS, Challenger R/T or SRT, or buying a Mustang GT, let alone a Pontiac G8 or even a GXP G8 or Solstice. Yet, I do see quite a number of them in Cobalt SSs. Neon SRT4s seem to have almost nothing but sub 25 year old owners.

2. Saturns are pricey. Pontiacs aren't. Sure, the G8 GT is now over 30 grand, but it's still cheaper than it's only competitor: The Dodge Charger R/T with the Road & Track package (makes the difference between a family sedan and a G8-like track handler).

3. Finally, Pontiac has "tuner" heritage. Pontiac has a long history of being tuner friendly. In the 60s, there were plenty of tuner parts you could get for your Pontiac, courtsey of a warehouse full of performance parts when GM pulled out of racing). The Ram Jet and the 455SD engines all but had instructions on how to open them up. Simply cutting out a seal on 70s era Trans Ams and Can Ams created an instant cold air intake. Even Pontiac's lowly "Iron Duke" came in an SD version that had race grade materials such as connecting rods and pistons. Any 4 banger SD engine was capable of handling racing quality upgrades. And don't get me started about the "tuner" potential of the supercharged Grand Prixs of not too long ago.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the V8 engine is no longer the catch-all and end-all as it once was. There is also a whole generation of people who are all but afraid of anything that says rear wheel drive. I even was placed in a position of defending rear wheel drive right here on THIS website 2 years ago against a bunch of people who felt RWD was dangerous outside of sunny dry weather. That's right.... here on an enthusiasts site that worships a rear wheel drive Camaro!!

Times have been changing for years. RWD isn't mandatory anymore on anything but the most serious performance and handling cars, or luxury sports sedans with pedigree names. That's why I give the GM Alpha a 66%+ chance of never seeing the light of day in favor of a redone Zeta. That's why Ford is rethinking it's own RWD program for large cars (though the Mustang is exempt).

Pontiac will still offer G8s and STs. But the expectation is that most of their sales (and excitement) will be small FWD cars. Anyone who didn't see that coming isn't really paying attention.

 

Agreed 100%. I was actually serious in a half-joking kind of way. Pontiac already has products for the "older" crowd with the G8 and the G8T. Now they just need to pour some excitement into the younger generation. A "tuner" like line that includes accessories, etc. would make a lot of sense and round out the entire line, making Pontiac the excitement division for the next generation.