Camaro was never a "sporty coupe" in my opinion either.

A FWD Monte V6 is a Sporty coupe,

A Focus with a wing is a sporty coupe
A Civic with a set of wheels is a "sporty coupe"
A Camry Solara is a "sporty coupe"
A V6 mustang is a sporty coupe
A Contour SVT is a sporty coupe.

Camaro should not be a "sporty coupe"

What we are discussing is a performance car that originally took the Muscle car concept and added Corvette (read:Sports Car) DNA that ended up with the "poor man's vette" principle.

 

Chevy itself described the Camaro as a "sporty coupe" in it's marketing for years. But whatever...........

BTW, SVT Contour is a sports sedan.

 

I found this quote of yours especially peculiar since the new Mustang is 188 inches in length according to Ford's site. 188 inches is too long for your vision of Camaro, too long for a "sporty" coupe as you say. How's it going to sell in Europe, or even in America, since it's too big?

 

Peculiar why?

Peculiar because Ford plans to target Europe with Mustang?
Or peculiar that I mention the potential for creating a market for Camaro in Asia and Europe.

BTW, that 188" is about 5" longer than the SN95. In Europe that would probably be considered a relatively large car.

 

Where did those numbers come from?

 

I'm asking. Because that is the bracket that the 5th Gen should be designed in. (more towards 187") Take that length, add a 72.5"-74.0" width, a 108"-110" wheelbase, make it 50.5" or a little higher and those are perfect CAMARO dimensions for these times. The car would have more room everywhere because of the wheelbase, the engine wouldn't be in the dash, push the seats up a little higher for easier in and out, give it a Third Gen rake, make it a great all-around performer, price it right, have the design be new but obviously Camaro, with cues from all Gens and it would be a winner.

A car that's smaller might be a little easier to throw around, but those little cars that you compare aren't as fun and won't hold the road like an IROC-Z does. Everything has to be considered, such as weight, tires, etc. I find that a select few will make any excuse to turn the Camaro into something it isn't. The previous M*stangs didn't sell because of their size, that's ridiculous. The F-Body had many issues that turned people to the "other" cars. Why would F*rd make their car bigger if that was the case? People could argue that the 05 became more Camaro-like while you want to turn the Camaro into a car the size of the previous 2 Gen of M*stangs, which is just to little for a Camaro. It is NOT what people want.

 

This is all wrong.

FWD Monte Carlo is a 2 door sedan.
Focus and Civic are sporty coupe.
Camry Solara is 2 door sedan.
V6 Mustang is a sport coupe (not sporty).
Contour SVT is a sporty 4 door sedan.

The Camaro has always been a sport coupe. Newer V8 models are powerful sport coupes, as some of the older V8 models (not the 307 2bbl of 1967).

Things like the RX-8 are sports cars. If you drive the RX-8 and Camaro back to back, you'll see what I mean.

 

No, peculiar that you say a sporty coupe 188" inches in length will never sell in America, or abroad. Mustang will have no problems selling here (obviously) and if they are targeting Europe with a coupe that size I guess it isn't ludicrous to imagine Chevy doing the same with Camaro. Peculiar that a Mustang design people go ga-ga over will sell like hotcakes even though it's outside of your G35 measuring stick....I'm with you on wanting a dimensionally "tidier" Camaro but the real hot button for buyers in this market is the styling, the styling, THE STYLING!!!! Not just how long the darn thing is down to the last little centimeter. I think that's our point.

 

Not to mention peculiar because, right now Z284ever is saying a car this size in this class CAN NOT SELL, however, when asked how many 2005 Mustangs would sell when we were discussing the Musnag pre-launch, he said he expects 250,000 to sell EASILY!!

 

I'm sorry but you are flat out wrong. Get the definitions of your words down first before correcting me. A Sedan BY DEFINITION is a 4 door car. A Coupe BY DEFINITION is a 2 door car. Which is why you have a "Camry" And a "Camry Coupe"

Coupes are 2 door cars regardless of whether they are based on a Sedan chassis or not. If it has 2 doors you refer to it as a coupe.

Charlie, the 188" Mustang length mention is peculiar because that dimention is far too long for your Ideal Camaro, yet Ford seems to think that length is going to go over well in Europe. If they really had the opinions of "the rest of the world" they would have made a shorter Mustang.

 

I never said that a 188" Mustang wouldn't sell.....I said medium sized coupes sell better than large coupe. Personally though, I think the '05 Mustang would have better proportions if it could loose afew inches of rear overhang. I think that may be a consequence of the Mustang's D2C platform, using DEW98's rear structure. And when I see them on the road, I think they look alittle on the large side. Not just length wise...but in overall dimensions.

How well will Mustang do in Europe? I sure think it's size may be a liability there. But who knows, Chrysler plans on selling the 300 there as well.

 

I never said CAN NOT SELL. I never said Civic. And I don't think I ever said 250,000.....since I know the assembly plant has a capacity of 190,000-200,000.

 

OK, I researched real quick:

In this thread, you said you heard sales of 200,000 (still a sizable number for a coupe) or so, and you also say YOU would consider buying one... interesting if this size on a pony car is a deal killer for you.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=mustang+sales

 

Wow Darth...what an impressive bit of investigative work. But, as you see....no 250,000 number spoken by me. Which.....I guess.....makes..... you......wrong.....................again.

Please move along folks.....nothing to see here.

 

So, to you, 200,000 Mustangs sold for MY2005 is insignificant and a failure?

Pony cars in this size range are unwated by the buying public... according to all your posts... ???

And the fact that even YOU said you would consider purchasing one, even though it is this unbearable length, means nothing?

Sounds like a bunch of double talk to me.