Who is Silver?

 

I am a GM dude completely and I don't like F**d or the M*****g. But, I usually agree with the things ProudP has to say because he likes all cars and states the facts that some of you can't see. Just because a car is GM you'll buy it and accept whatever BS they'll throw at you. Not me, I'd rather see things get better. Listen to what he and others have to say in the same views as us on subjects like this because you have to be carefull because there are people reading.

 

ProudPony - I went back and reviewed some of your posts and my apologies if you find my opinions too harsh. I do agree with you that frank criticism of GM products and product strategy is a good thing to discuss, if it helps bring back a better Camaro. I also agree that some of your posts are in that vein and it appears you seek to encourage that kind of results by encouraging others to post similar ideas. However, it is also clear that with all your talk of being supportive of the Camaro, you have neglected one simple thing: BUYING one. Your sigblock says you own 19 Mustangs... and in one thread you quote the odo readings on all your various Fords. It's great you enjoy your Fords so much. And I'm certainly not claiming one must own a Camaro to post here or be a Camaro supporter/enthusiast. But can you see how I would look upon your posts with a jaded eye? Especially after you post this in a GTO thread, where you cynically referred to it as the "GrandGTO"?

I omitted some of the quote where you said no one had been criticising the car itself. It appears to me you were. You have every right to... it's fine if you prefer a new Camaro to come back instead of a GTO. I'm sure there are others here, including passionate Camaro owners, who agree with you. But my point is - your overall attitude toward GM shows in that thread, and you don't appear to be much of a GM fan. That's fine - but I don't have to embrace you as a fellow muscle car fan, especially if you are cynical toward GM. I like Mustangs. My first car might have been a 67 Mustang fastback I test drove, but I chose a 1970 Chevelle instead b/c it had a V8. One of my friends has a 69 Shelby. I think it's great Ford has the new Cobra and the Mach I coming next year. I also think though, Ford could do a much better job at quality and I am frankly bored with the aging Mustang shape.

I happen to also like the new GTO. This stuff about it being imported... bah. My Formula is "imported" too... what does that mean today now that we have international mfg. and 24X7 engineering? As for GM giving us what "they think we want"... many would say the GTO is an AWESOME replacement for the Camaro. It has a modern platform, side airbags, and a real back seat. Maybe that bugs you a little... since the Mustang has NONE of those.

You said in one thread we should provide constructive criticism or such... here's my input for RedPlanet:

Quality & Features I care about and want in the next Camaro:

1. Reliable and simple V8 with high HP, torque and fuel economy
2. Knockout styling and innovative features such as versatile interior reconfigurability
3. Interior trim quality as good as that on today's FBody
4. Modern safety equipment such as ABS/TCS

Quality & Features I simply don't care if I see in the next Camaro

1. Fancy, sophisticated DOHC valvetrains which allow me to brag to my friends that "it's a DOHC"
2. Perfect and tiny exterior panel gaps
3. Invisible interior plastic mold parting lines
4. Supple, smooth leather on every surface of every seat
5. Doors that make a satisfying sound upon being slammed
6. Complete lack of those embarrassing interior fasteners
7. Tasteful PlastiChrome accents in all the right places

ProudPony - now it's your turn... what do you want in the next Camaro - and do you ever plan to actually buy one?

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NBM 99Formula, DF Lid, K&N, SLP WS6 Takeoff Muffler | DFGreen 98 GTP, Insulated SLP K&N, !U!Res, transcooler
| Dark Red Metallic 1990 IROC-Z Camaro, stock

 

You can like a car and have opinions about it without ever owning 1. No1 had to own a car to comment on it unless their comments are BS or incorrect, I'm sure he's been in a Camaro/F-Body before.

 

IZ28 - perhaps you missed this in my post:

 

I'm all for having a well-built car with an acceptable interior and a selection of modern engines (a V8-only Camaro would never sell). Why aren't you?

 

cmc - pls define what you mean by "well-built" and "acceptable"... I already have.

 

Noticably better than before. Basically I do care about the door closing noise, the interior panel fitment gaps, and the seat quality. They don't have to be on par with Lexus, but they definitely need to be noticably better than they are now!

 

The Holden Monero cost around $28k US to start with, now figure in import charges, now figure in that GM has to make some styling changes. How much money do you think they have left to make a $31k car??? If it goes any higher, i'm buying a Cobra.

We all saw what happened when Homer Simpson got the chance to desighn his own car....

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87 Grand National, 9 sec street car

2002 NBM WS.6 A4

 

cmc - well you're certainly not alone in wanting those things. There are also buyers like me though, who would rather see limited development and mfg. budget going into new features on the car. So we shall see.

A quote from Homer Simpson:

 

Hey Red we certainly need u around alot longer.Cold turkey is the only way to go aug.will be 2 years for me.You have to want it bad enough,although your job must be more stressful that mine I can only imagine the crap u must put up with.(I personaly hate bean counters)I agree with darknfast in many areas.I like the 50th ed. VETTE,love the color.More of everything is always a good thing though.On the 35th SS,everyone knows there was zero budget,my only complaint is I hate bright red,Electron blue would have been awsome(we all know what they say about opinions).Keep up the great work.Anyone else notice how all of f**d's big H.P.#'S come from power adders(supercharger)? Just wondering?This is why I'm not very impressed with the lightning,or cobra.Anything makes power with a blower or turbo,in the case of the imports.

 

BDnF,
Thanks for an honest heartfelt post.

First thing - no apology necessary. I admitted long ago that I am not in my home turf over here and I figured my brand loyalty would cause a stir. I don't try to flaunt it, but I am making no efforts whatsoever to cover it up. My sig was meant to help establish my credibility here as an avid ponycar collector, not a 17 year old with one car. I am totally honest w/ you all about whatever I may post.

Second - I repeat, I am honestly concerned with the continuation of the musclecar/ponycar niche. I want the long-lived rivalry between Mustang and Camaro to continue. Without one - either one - I am not convinced the other would survive for long. That's 80% of why I come here at all.

Third - In order for US automakers to whoop-up on the importers - WE NEED TO GET OUR ACT TOGETHER. That will take criticism from those who care, and listening/action on the part of those in charge. That goes for Ford AND GM. That is the other 20% of why I come here. I put Ford on the spot continuously. Just busted them again last week for trying to charge my company $800 to replace a speedo head that was defective. THEY KNOW ME! But IMHO, that's the only way we can make them improve - to use the systems in place.

Now some personal issues... why I am stuck on Moostangs;
I would be lynched by my family if I drove home a Bowtie! J/K! My family had already gone thru many brands and settled into Fords based on reliability some 8 years before I was even born. My sister - 13 yrs older than I - had a '66 Mustang when she was in high school. She used to babysit me, so I got to hang with her and her girlfriends in that car - cool. My mom and dad found me an '81 Mustang sedan for my first car. It was cheap, I could afford it, they liked it too, and offered to help. So my first car was a Mustang... Gee, what feelings could that stir up? And as if fate were speaking to me out loud, my alma-matter is Parkland Sr. High, the home of the Parkland Mustangs! My H.S. letterjacket has "Mustang" across the back - how cool when you were driving one too! I am a Mustang guy by fate and default - no "performance" or "hatred"-based reasons.

Another thing that keeps me into them is information. As a collector, you better know what you are buying because the seller could care less. It's kinda like Lionel trains or Avon bottles, you pick one and learn all you can about it. I have studied these cars to wits end. I know what they are supposed to look like, what options were available and when, and what their values are. I have most of Fords engine, tranny, rear axle, and option codes memorized now. (I need help for this addiction! ) I want to know all I can about 1 thing to be a more competent buyer/collector of that object - that's all. I'm not obsessed with them because they are "the best in every way", nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I am probably over qualified to point out the MANY shortcomings of this car over it's 38-year history, and they DO have them! But don't they all? That is why I have come to love ALL ponycars, even though I chose to collect only one. They have their own personalities and histories that set them apart from grocery-getters.

And now, for my 5th gen requests...
1)A little more edge, a little less bubble.
2)Modern design/features with subtle hints of the classics(F1's, F2's). NOT a RETRO. Just use a variation of the old badge (like the orange and black Z/28), or old color schemes, or look-a-like wheels, or something.
3)Attention to everyday useability. Ingress and egress should be easier. Visibility helps when parking on city streets. Room for more than 1 golf bag and a boom box. Etc.
4)Use better materials and assembly methods - especially in the interior. The body, I don't have as much beef with.
5)Keep The COST Down! If I want ABS, TCS, Leather, OnStar, DVD players, Gameboys, and a massaging drivers seat - I should have to pay to get them. Don't make the base car so refined that nobody can afford them. After all, this is supposed to be a MUSCLECAR, not a world class luxury and tech platform. Cheap, and optionally powerful, that's the ticket.

Carry overs or "Good Points"...
1)You got a helluva good engine - USE IT.
2)The cockpit ergonomics are great. I agree w/your shifter comment 100%.
3)Suspension is currently awesome IMHO. Handling is fantastic. Just don't rest on laurels for too long though.
4)Good reliable power in the base units. Don't forget that not everyone wants a rocketship.

"Don't care" points... (almost the same as you BDnF)
1) Don't care how the power gets made, as long as it's reliable. DOHC, SOHC, Pushrods, Blower, I really don't care. (But N2O is not factory from anybody!)
2) Exterior gaps are not a big thing for me, as long as they don't start to look like a "feature".
3) Leather? I find very few leather seats in drag cars or road racers. My @$$ slips around on the leather too much when performance driving. Gimme cloth anyhow.
4) Textures and simulated grains - just use good materials to start with and you shouldn't have to "immitate".

Then to answer your last question - would I ever buy one? YES. Given the right opportunity I would have no problem bying one. But I must be honest, I doubt if it would be a new car purchase. I don't even buy Mustangs new. These are my toys - not my daily drivers - so I can't justify laying out $30K for a toy. Used - definitely. Right now, I would be most likely to buy a mid '80's IROC with T-tops in black. I think they exhibit collectability along with great styling and performance. Thing is, I dont LOOK for Camaros, I LOOK for Mustangs and often people point me to them cause tey know I'm into them - it's that "specialty-thing" again. Some on this board know me and my cars personally, and I think they could assure you that I mean what I say. I respect and would gladly have a GM product - especially over rice or German.

Sorry to everyone for this novel - just tryin' to explain things.
BDnF, thanks again for the consideration.
It's all good w/ me.

 

Jeezuz, this guy can't stand simple criticism towards GM, but spouts out 3 or 4 towards Ford in every paragraph. Sounds like a case of brand loyalty gone too far.

 

GREAT choice!!

Third Gen.

 

The Austrailian made Mercury Capri convertible of about 10 years ago had no issues with import charges. Neither does the current Austrailan made Mitsubishi Diamonte (called the Magna down under). Import charges are a non issue.

As for styling changes, Holden is known for designing entire cars for virtual pennies (Monaro's total design & enginnering cost $20 million while the 98 Camaro's nose piece cost $12 million).

The money that is being spent is primarily for moving the fuel tank, upping engine torque, and passing federal crash regs (as a side note, Monaro ALREADY passes our emission standards, AND qualifies as a Low Emissions Vehicle!)