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Oldsmobile and why Buick needs a new Grand National

Old Aug 2, 2003 | 09:55 AM
  #16  
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Originally posted by Snorman
IMO, GM can keep it's "tape and sticker" specialty cars, which is likely what a modern iteration of the GN and turbo Regals would be.
I'm sure they'd be real creative. A blacked out FWD Regal with the same, 8 year old, transverse mounted, blown 3.8 in it...same as a '97 GTP.
S.
They've already done it. Go to SLP's website and take a look at the Regal GSX. An all black 4 door FWD Regal with some performance mods.
It's a shame they used the GSX name on it. That car is not worthy of the name.
And the car itself is pretty lame, too.
Old Aug 2, 2003 | 11:00 AM
  #17  
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Originally posted by guionM
Buick doesn't want another Grand National type car, and aren't trying to attract youth at all. That's not their target market. They are aiming at mid-aged or older moderately high income conservative individuals who would otherwise buy a Lexus.
The average Buick buyer today is 63, I wouldnt call that mid-aged.
Old Aug 2, 2003 | 12:10 PM
  #18  
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Originally posted by guionM
Buick doesn't want another Grand National type car, and aren't trying to attract youth at all. That's not their target market. They are aiming at mid-aged or older moderately high income conservative individuals who would otherwise buy a Lexus.

That's why they should build a Riviera that competes with the SC430.
Old Aug 2, 2003 | 03:37 PM
  #19  
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Originally posted by gtjeff
The average Buick buyer today is 63, I wouldnt call that mid-aged.
True, and Buick want's to bring it down to about 45-50.

Originally posted by 95 Z/28 LT1
That's why they should build a Riviera that competes with the SC430.
I'm dead sure there's something like that in the works (a coupe of some sort). No telling when it will be out, what it will be called, or what chassis it will be on though.

Last edited by guionM; Aug 2, 2003 at 03:41 PM.
Old Aug 2, 2003 | 06:16 PM
  #20  
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Originally posted by guionM
Buick doesn't want another Grand National type car, and aren't trying to attract youth at all. That's not their target market. They are aiming at mid-aged or older moderately high income conservative individuals who would otherwise buy a Lexus.
Comparing a Buick product to a Lexus? That's really a stretch.
Old Aug 2, 2003 | 11:36 PM
  #21  
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Originally posted by guionM
True, and Buick want's to bring it down to about 45-50.



I'm dead sure there's something like that in the works (a coupe of some sort). No telling when it will be out, what it will be called, or what chassis it will be on though.
Isn't the average Corvette buyer age around 45-50? That would mean that a perfomance coupe is needed for Buick. Even then, there's talk from Lexus about a performance version of the IS300 called the IS430 I believe. So, Buick needs performance vechicles.
Old Aug 4, 2003 | 10:05 PM
  #22  
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about the fiero. i have mixed opinions about that because i frankly think the idea was cool just not well executed. they used the TERRIBLE 2.8 v6. i think with a well executed plan this could make a come back. thoughts?
Old Aug 4, 2003 | 10:44 PM
  #23  
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Any of you ever see the '89 Fiero concept car?

I love this car... it's a real shame they didn't keep making it.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0
Old Aug 5, 2003 | 04:14 AM
  #24  
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Originally posted by Mikes25thAnnTA
Any of you ever see the '89 Fiero concept car?

I love this car... it's a real shame they didn't keep making it.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/folder/ph...ehicleTypeID=0
In a way, you can say they did make it... it was the Firebird.

Seriously though, I think that car left the Fiero's roots. It's bigger... make that too big, and would have been in appearance a V6 powered 2 passenger Firebird. The Fiero GT was a pretty good car towards the end, and it's 2.8 gave good power for the late 1980s. I imagine if it lived, today it would have the GTP's supercharged V6.

Originally posted by Bud M
Comparing a Buick product to a Lexus? That's really a stretch.
No more a stretch than Cadillac comparing it's future direction to BMW only a year and a half ago.

After a turn around like that, I'm not dismissing anything.

Last edited by guionM; Aug 5, 2003 at 04:16 AM.
Old Aug 5, 2003 | 09:02 PM
  #25  
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Originally posted by guionM

Seriously though, I think that car left the Fiero's roots. It's bigger... make that too big, and would have been in appearance a V6 powered 2 passenger Firebird. The Fiero GT was a pretty good car towards the end, and it's 2.8 gave good power for the late 1980s. I imagine if it lived, today it would have the GTP's supercharged V6.

The base model and formula concepts were still the same size as the 88's. The top end gtp car would have increased in size (bad idea-all that extra weight).

The market is there for a performance mid-engine. The results of the recent survey here reflect that. A large majority of people were willing to pay more for a mid-engine over the front engine Solstice. It would be alot easier to make a business case for the higher margin car GM. Just give it an engine to match its looks this time.
Old Aug 6, 2003 | 12:34 AM
  #26  
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Originally posted by gtjeff
The base model and formula concepts were still the same size as the 88's. The top end gtp car would have increased in size (bad idea-all that extra weight).

The market is there for a performance mid-engine. The results of the recent survey here reflect that. A large majority of people were willing to pay more for a mid-engine over the front engine Solstice. It would be alot easier to make a business case for the higher margin car GM. Just give it an engine to match its looks this time.
I also think GM pulled the Fiero prematurely. Like the current PT Cruiser, it's massive sales success early on made the car look like a failure when sales tappered off to roughly what initial projections were.

It had easy to redesign plastic body panels, the tooling was payed for, it was still making a profit. I remember reading GM's CEO at the time pushed killing Fiero for money to launch Saturn.
Old Aug 6, 2003 | 09:53 AM
  #27  
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Afterall, the Grand National was nothing more than a up market Regal Turbo
That was the fastest american made production car for 2 years, not to mention the 89 TTA was the fastest TA ever until the LS1's. The reason we own these cars is because anyone can do it with a sbc, but Buick developed the technology and did it with a turboV6.
Old Aug 6, 2003 | 10:52 PM
  #28  
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Originally posted by guionM

It had easy to redesign plastic body panels, the tooling was payed for, it was still making a profit. I remember reading GM's CEO at the time pushed killing Fiero for money to launch Saturn.
There was a 20th anniversary show for the Fiero in Pontiac last month. The main speaker was Hulki Aldikacti- father of the Fiero. He mentioned that Saturn's could have been built on the same Fiero line in Pontiac after making a few hours of adjustments. The first Saturn prototypes were built in Pontiac!! No reason the car couldnt be plugged into one of the Saturn plants today. He also mentioned an alum chassis v8 fiero which would blow the doors off the c-5 prototypes. Look at www.fiero.nl for pictures of prototype fiero's including an awesome convertible and turbo fiero ( might have been G. Natl engine)with intercooler located inside the rear spoiler. The 90 gta was there with its dual rear trunk lids. Thanks to Pontiac for showing these cars.

Last edited by gtjeff; Aug 6, 2003 at 10:59 PM.
Old Aug 7, 2003 | 12:11 AM
  #29  
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Why not use the Sigma plateform, sure that can be used for more than just the CTS.
I agree Buicks styling is just .. blah. We had one at our dealership and I think even Taurses are nicer than that thing.
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