With every model having an SS designation it will probably be monotonous.

SS has not always been with the Camaro, RS was even with it longer than SS was. 73-95 there was no SS, 22 out of the 35 years. But Z28 was with it through every Gen and only missed 75 and 76, 33 of the 35 years it was there and the top model. You can't count 88-90 because even though there was no regular Z28, the IROC-Z is an IROC-Z28, (an option that enhanced a Z28) and the Z28 emblem was kept on the interior and even the ordering RPO was Z28.

 

Not true. All of them have come and gone. None more so than SS.

After the Z/28 came on the scene, the SS slowly morphed into the Type LT, then into the Berlinetta.

One thing I noticed though. The SS proponents, chose their SS, not necessarily for it's Camaro performance lineage, or even it's name. They chose it because it was the Camaro with the hood scoop and the nicer wheels. Take away those things from the SS (as they were taken away from Z/28)....and I'd doubt if ANYONE would have bought one.

As someone else mentioned, if the Z/28 had come with a hood scoop and 17" wheels (which it should have)....things would have been the other way around.

The point Im trying to make is this. If SS owners are given a Z/28 with the "look" they require, they will buy it.
However, Z/28 enthusiasts...on the other hand ...WILL ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE!

 

Pre 99 Mustang and GT I think he was referencing.

The old 145HP Ford 3.8L was no match for the 3800, and a V6 Camaro (especially with 3.42's) will give a 225Hp 4.6 SOHC a good run for it's money.

Post 99 The 195 HP Ford 3.8L will run with or beat (do to being lighter and having better stock gears) a V6 F-Body...a 260HP GT will win no contest.

The Ford 3.8L is however much less refined then it's GM counterpart. It rattles the car and makes "unpleasent noises". Luckliy for Mustang buyers the writing is on teh wall for these engines

 

The first year 4.6L GTs weren't anything to brag about with the auto. My 160k mile Probe (I4 NA) took a few in the 1/8th. Bad drivers possibly, but most Mustang owners must be, then.

 

The first Z28s in the late 60's with the 302 was a Trans Am road racing homologation special--not a drag car.

The current Z28, as is evident from this board, is bascially a torquey, low revving drag racer's toy. The SS has the same motor, with a cold air scoop (not true ram air) and a slightly different exhaust and suspension, and a heavy duty diff, if you order it correctly. Both are used primarily for 1/8 and 1/4 mile enthusiasts, and have about the same speed. For guys that are more into road racing, they offer less. I shouldn't have to give up a back seat and get a Vette to get a great handling/braking car out of the box.

What Chevy should do is return the 5th gen Z28 to its low volume, road racing roots with a high-revving (7000 RPM), free breathing small block V8 with lighter curb weight, and suspension and brakes set up for road racing, and make the 5th gen SS the big torque drag racing car. Heck, the cowl induction SS was that originally, right? They should ditch 6 cyl cars completely. Let the GTP chassis do the 6 cyl thing. As long as the 5th gen shares a chassis with other cars in the GM lineup, this should be possible withour making the line unprofitable.

Just one guy's opinion.

 

The SS was a bargin as far as car options go, that is why so many people opted for the package, after being "sold". Along the same lines, the V6 cars are very important and need to be dirt cheap...it's just good business. How do you think the Mustang GT does so well? People go in looking for a plain-old base Mustang and leave with a GT or Cobra after talking with the salesman, age old business tactics. It's the lower price that gets people in the door.

 

I agree with everythign except for the engine.. Before they build it, make sure the engine size would be maximal to whatever class it would most likely compete in..... I don't see the point of purposly making the engine displace less but rev higher when you can have it displace more, with less revs, but a bigger and wider tq curve...... Unless whatever racing class/genre seems to fit it best mandates a 5 liter engine..

That and somehow leave enough room under the cowl to fit a C5R block, heads, and fancy intake manifold, like the ones that 427HRT Monaro has!

Unfortuantly, I don't see GM making a stripped down, high performance model for cheap, unless

1) it charges a rediculous amount to make it profitable
2) loads it up with fancy options and stuff to make it profitable, but stepping away from the "racing vision"(SS?)
3) GM wakes up and decides to leverage it size and build a small batch of Z28's a year, even at a slight loss, to be intended for racing (try to advoid the collectors - ones who buy rare cars just to be stored and shown), to add that "racing gleam" onto the name again..

 

Nope cowl induction started on Z28's as did wide racing stripes. And there has to be a V6 Camaro.

The Z28 might have been made for road racing, but it was just as good at drag racing. Ask some SS owners that couldn't keep up with 1 back in the day bigger engine or not. Ask some M*****g owners what the car to look out for back then was on the street. To me thats what the Z28 is all about, the Camaro that can do it all better.

 

How 'bout neither?

You would have gone, I'm quite confident, into convusions last evening when a journalist suggested three levels...V6, Z28 and, as I recall, a ZL1 or an SS with the ZL1/SS as the "top dog"...with 100 hp difference between the Z and the ZL1/SS. (I have it in his handwriting....but I will never give his identity away.........I'm afraid some of you might take a contract out on him!!!!)

The problem may be, as I continue to point out... your point of view........ I don't disagree that the Z28 is hallowed....and I understand your passion for the nameplate.....but quite frankly, if we were to make the Z28 the 'top dog' so to speak, there'd be a lot of upset SS owners in return.

I'm sure you've heard me say it before (many times) and I will continute to say it. .....no matter what we do when we change something -- anything on a Camaro or a Firebird or a Corvette....some will love it and some will hate it.

I see it this way: we have much more in common than we do in difference.....how 'bout celebrating that they are such great cars?

I DO think there is something to be said for exclusivity.......believe me, I must get at least a dozen or more requests every month...and sometimes much more than a dozen.....from owners who want to know how 'exclusive' or 'rare' their Z28 or SS is based on exterior/interior/t-roof/non t-roof/1LE/non 1LE/automatic/manual/etc..........

The price point has a lot to do with it.....and if the Z28 is the top car, we will sell less of them, and they will be more exclusive.

I just want to make sure that the next gen. is class leading in terms of horsepower, straight line performance, handling and ride, etc.....as it has been for the past few years..........and regardless of what some say, the Camaro (and Firebird)went out at the top of their class in 2002..................

(and besides, I LIKE seeing my initials on Camaros!)

(running, ducking, looking for cover and screaming 'don't shoot!!don't shoot!!!!!)



Chicago, I guarantee, should be interesting!!!!! (leave the Ford at home!!!!)

 

People are/may start looking for a wider variety of cars.. Hence why we have the Scions, Elements, SUV/station wagon crossovers coming out.. In the future, the market may look like a bunch of lower volume run cars, than just a few big high volume sellers..

I say, if they manage to develop an good base platforms, and a good way to develop and manufacture different vehicles off the platforms, they might be able to get away with building a low volume (like 10's of thousands) Camaros with a V8.. perhaps have the SS option level thats loaded with features that drive the cost, and profit up.... Make the "lesser" V6, I4, hybrid, etc cars more attractive, so people actaully enter the dealership for one of those orginally. Hopefully, with different suspension, trans, engine, exterior and interior panel setups, they can make all the cars look, feel, handle dramatically different.. But have them all share the characteristcs of being solid, reliable, quality cars. I can't believe a corp the size of GM can't buy/build higher qualities materials/parts that are more expensive, but in such bulk that they end up costing the same or cheaper than other smaller manufactures same or lower quality materials/parts...


Of course there is the saying, you can only split the cookie up so many ways before the cookie crumbles.

 

The Camaro needs no SS designation just as the Corvette doesnt. They are obviously Sports cars, who needs 2 letters to remind them of that?? If a 5th Gen comes out with a lineup like the later 4th Gen, I will be buying Z28 emblems new from you guys and switching them on "SS's" during the night. The funny part is, I'm serious.

Come on RP, what about all the pissed off Z28 owners?! What about giving the name the spot it deserves?! The Z28 always sold incredibly (of course in the 60's it was kind of a special side model so it couldn't, but sales increased every year) and giving it what it deserves is the thing to do now after 6 years of that overpriced, SLP enhanced, "Z28" with a designation on it that shouldn't be there. The SS is in no way as known or held in the regard Z28 is with the Camaro, and the cheap, plain, mid model, boring, taken out of context, later 4th Gen Z28 has already taken away from the name a little. Please don't continue it.

 

I drive a full load SS ragtop. I'd also love to have (in addition, not besides) a 1LE Z28.

My vote on the topic.

Base V6 Camaro ... no designation.
Spiffy V6 Camaro ... RS.

Hi-Po track biased V8 Camaro - Z28 (the Z06 of Camaros)
LuxoCruiser V8 Camaro - SS

Basically one wouldn't argue that the SS or Z28 is top dog, they would be biased for different applications and therefore "top dog" in their own right.

 

EXACTLY. If a SS has to be included in a 5th Gen this is the only way it should be done, and it would be successfull.

 

Call it what you will... I just want a 5th Gen Camaro! Personally I want the biggest baddest Camaro to be called Z/28. However if the only differences are going to cosmetic, I'd much prefer that the luxo-camaro be called "SS" (or whatever).

If we're going to be nostalgic about it, the best handling Camaro should be the Z/28. Go ahead and give the "SS" fancy spoilers, stripes and wheels... just as long as you give me a Z/28 with near as equal hp and make all the hi-po goodies available add-ons minus the fluff and without the "SS" name... I could live with that.

 

I agree with this 100% This way each will have its own following and would make every one happy instead of alienating some in favor of others.