Notes about 04-05 GTO and judge
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Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 564
From: Fletcher, NC, US
Notes about 04-05 GTO and judge
Been gone a while so I haven't seen whether this next news has been talked about or not, but this is just in from Pete McCarthy of Pontiac Enthusiast magazine at the Trans am Nationals:
Two things:
1) ZERO percent chance we will ever see a Judge again. It just ain't happening, period.
2) When asked about the new GTO, he got this cunning smile on his face and started to talk but interrupted himself, giving the impression that he was trying to keep from leaking any major news, and the first thing he said after that was "Let's just put it this way.. I'm waiting for the '05 model. Big changes for '05 model."
He confirmed NO Ram-Air for '04 and seemed to indicate that it would not happen for 05 either. He more or less confirmed that the target audience was "well-to-do 40 somethings and up".
One thing which I didn't fully grasp was when he said that "the GTO is being designed and modified from the Monaro strictly by Australians in Australia. It's not like Pontiac is going to step in and tell them what to do or how to do it." That sounded omenous to me, but I don't know.
Also when asked about the '04, he said something to the effect of "there's no doubt in my mind that old fogeys like me will ****** 'em up as soon as they come out, and you can bet on that". He mentioned a dealer by name (but I forgot the name) that has already reserved five 04 GTO's for promotional purposes only, trying to give an idea of the widespread success to come. He was like "5 here.. 10 there.. 5 there.. before you know it, there's none to go around!" His sentiment was the same, if not more enthusiastic, for the '05 model. He confirmed that there will be 18000 - 20000 max imported per year for BOTH 04 and 05, possibly 06. After that he implied it was anyone's guess.
He mentioned "Mr. Lutz" numerous times as a total car buff and very positive force inside GM.
Also really cool historical trivia, for example how the 326 is really a 336 masquerading as a 326 because of "cubic-inch rivalry" regarding the 327 of the same vintage, how the 350 is really "354 and change", forged vs. cast, head casting codes and numbers, SD455 data, etc.
I'm just stating what I heard first-hand from Pete who I consider to be an excellent source. Anything could change. the "waiting for '05" comment was most intriguing.
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1982 Recaro Trans Am (Y84), LU5/WS6/CC1/G80/J65/etc. 3,082 orig. miles (7/24/2002) - http://ohok.com/82recaro
1985 Base Firebird, F41/LB8/GU6/etc. CB radio, 142kmiles. http://ohok.com/82recaro/kizzsfb.jpg
1984 Firebird S/E, WS6/LL1/MD8/etc. All original, 102kmiles. Sold 5/02 http://ohok.com/82recaro/kizzsse.jpg
[This message has been edited by kizz (edited August 27, 2002).]
Two things:
1) ZERO percent chance we will ever see a Judge again. It just ain't happening, period.
2) When asked about the new GTO, he got this cunning smile on his face and started to talk but interrupted himself, giving the impression that he was trying to keep from leaking any major news, and the first thing he said after that was "Let's just put it this way.. I'm waiting for the '05 model. Big changes for '05 model."
He confirmed NO Ram-Air for '04 and seemed to indicate that it would not happen for 05 either. He more or less confirmed that the target audience was "well-to-do 40 somethings and up".
One thing which I didn't fully grasp was when he said that "the GTO is being designed and modified from the Monaro strictly by Australians in Australia. It's not like Pontiac is going to step in and tell them what to do or how to do it." That sounded omenous to me, but I don't know.
Also when asked about the '04, he said something to the effect of "there's no doubt in my mind that old fogeys like me will ****** 'em up as soon as they come out, and you can bet on that". He mentioned a dealer by name (but I forgot the name) that has already reserved five 04 GTO's for promotional purposes only, trying to give an idea of the widespread success to come. He was like "5 here.. 10 there.. 5 there.. before you know it, there's none to go around!" His sentiment was the same, if not more enthusiastic, for the '05 model. He confirmed that there will be 18000 - 20000 max imported per year for BOTH 04 and 05, possibly 06. After that he implied it was anyone's guess.
He mentioned "Mr. Lutz" numerous times as a total car buff and very positive force inside GM.
Also really cool historical trivia, for example how the 326 is really a 336 masquerading as a 326 because of "cubic-inch rivalry" regarding the 327 of the same vintage, how the 350 is really "354 and change", forged vs. cast, head casting codes and numbers, SD455 data, etc.
I'm just stating what I heard first-hand from Pete who I consider to be an excellent source. Anything could change. the "waiting for '05" comment was most intriguing.
------------------
1982 Recaro Trans Am (Y84), LU5/WS6/CC1/G80/J65/etc. 3,082 orig. miles (7/24/2002) - http://ohok.com/82recaro
1985 Base Firebird, F41/LB8/GU6/etc. CB radio, 142kmiles. http://ohok.com/82recaro/kizzsfb.jpg
1984 Firebird S/E, WS6/LL1/MD8/etc. All original, 102kmiles. Sold 5/02 http://ohok.com/82recaro/kizzsse.jpg
[This message has been edited by kizz (edited August 27, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 187
From: Holden, Massachusetts
Hmm I know whats gonna happen in 05 after the first production year. Can we say a detuned LS6 from the vette??? hey it could happen. But thats weird that pontiac can't jump in and say they want this on the car and the aussies say no were building this car the way we want it and theres nothing you can do about it so back off, i mean it is pontiacs car and holden is also a part of GM along w/ pontiac, I think should have equal say in t he car or atleast combine thier ideas so they're both happy. I dunno, i just post here 
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1988 Camaro IROCZ "MIDNIGHT CRUIZERS"
305 ci Tuned Port 700R4
3"Exhaust/Flowmaster 80 series muffler/Dynomax high flow cat/CutOut
hypertech chip/k&n filers, cut MAF screen gutted air box
"Theres no replacement for displacement"
My Iroc web page....
www.geocities.com/bobfitz82/index.html
------------------
1988 Camaro IROCZ "MIDNIGHT CRUIZERS"
305 ci Tuned Port 700R4
3"Exhaust/Flowmaster 80 series muffler/Dynomax high flow cat/CutOut
hypertech chip/k&n filers, cut MAF screen gutted air box
"Theres no replacement for displacement"
My Iroc web page....
www.geocities.com/bobfitz82/index.html
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BadIroc:
Hmm I know whats gonna happen in 05 after the first production year. Can we say a detuned LS6 from the vette??? hey it could happen. But thats weird that pontiac can't jump in and say they want this on the car and the aussies say no were building this car the way we want it and theres nothing you can do about it so back off, i mean it is pontiacs car and holden is also a part of GM along w/ pontiac, I think should have equal say in t he car or atleast combine thier ideas so they're both happy. I dunno, i just post here
</font>
Hmm I know whats gonna happen in 05 after the first production year. Can we say a detuned LS6 from the vette??? hey it could happen. But thats weird that pontiac can't jump in and say they want this on the car and the aussies say no were building this car the way we want it and theres nothing you can do about it so back off, i mean it is pontiacs car and holden is also a part of GM along w/ pontiac, I think should have equal say in t he car or atleast combine thier ideas so they're both happy. I dunno, i just post here
</font>
After the Aztec & that horrific GTO Pontiac displayed back in 99, I don't blame them for not wanting Pontiac touch the design. Monaro is a really good looking car in person!
Banned
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,954
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by kizz:
One thing which I didn't fully grasp was when he said that "the GTO is being designed and modified from the Monaro strictly by Australians in Australia. It's not like Pontiac is going to step in and tell them what to do or how to do it." That sounded omenous to me, but I don't know.
</font>
One thing which I didn't fully grasp was when he said that "the GTO is being designed and modified from the Monaro strictly by Australians in Australia. It's not like Pontiac is going to step in and tell them what to do or how to do it." That sounded omenous to me, but I don't know.
</font>
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19
From: Point Mugu, CA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:
North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market?</font>
North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market?</font>
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,215
From: Coppell, Texas
First off, I don't believe Mr. Lutz is the only postive force in GM now. Maybe the one that is highest up on the corperate ladder.
We've known for sometime now that the 03 or 04 GTO is a stop-gap. In 05 it should arrive on a new platform: the updated VE chassis that Holden is set to release then.
I wonder if the no Ram-Air and no Judge comment includes SLP?
------------------
-Joshua
1997 Bright Red Trans Am WS6 M6
I was thinking dagger. -Steve Nash
We've known for sometime now that the 03 or 04 GTO is a stop-gap. In 05 it should arrive on a new platform: the updated VE chassis that Holden is set to release then.
I wonder if the no Ram-Air and no Judge comment includes SLP?
------------------
-Joshua
1997 Bright Red Trans Am WS6 M6
I was thinking dagger. -Steve Nash
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sixer-Bird:
First off, I don't believe Mr. Lutz is the only postive force in GM now. Maybe the one that is highest up on the corperate ladder.
We've known for sometime now that the 03 or 04 GTO is a stop-gap. In 05 it should arrive on a new platform: the updated VE chassis that Holden is set to release then.
</font>
First off, I don't believe Mr. Lutz is the only postive force in GM now. Maybe the one that is highest up on the corperate ladder.
We've known for sometime now that the 03 or 04 GTO is a stop-gap. In 05 it should arrive on a new platform: the updated VE chassis that Holden is set to release then.
</font>
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:
I think that General Motors was gotten things backwards - North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market? It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog at General Motors.
</font>
I think that General Motors was gotten things backwards - North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market? It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog at General Motors.
</font>
Or, you can take a vacation there, & take time to learn about them 1st hand.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 200
From: Sydney, Australia
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:
I think that General Motors was gotten things backwards - North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market? It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog at General Motors.
</font>
I think that General Motors was gotten things backwards - North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market? It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog at General Motors.
</font>
If you could tell me a single GM NA model that has been sucessful in markets outside of the Americas, then I might consider your statement to be somewhat meaningful. The only one I can think of is the Suburban ...
The designers at Holden are just as skilled as any other GM department, so it makes no sense to take the design away from the guys who penned it in the first place.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 599
From: Inland Empire, CA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:
I think that General Motors was gotten things backwards - North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market? It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog at General Motors.
</font>
I think that General Motors was gotten things backwards - North American engineers should be designing Australian products, not the other way around. Why should a backwater subsidiary be responsible for the design of a product in the parent company's home market? It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog at General Motors.
</font>
Holden is still designing American muscle cars, and it seems they're the only group in GM that still is.
Just because Holden is based in a country you are unfamiliar with, doesn't make it a "backwater subsidiary".
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Jason
<A HREF="http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/munche" TARGET=_blank>1997 A4 Z28 "Mongoose"
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Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,368
From: OR
I'm looking forward in the near future for what GM is going to do... If they play their cars right, great things would happen. When Lutz first came to GM, I was skeptical about his direction, as in I thought it would never happen.. I remember talking to my friends saying, "there's a rumor the new Caddy will be RWD. HA!"
Looks like Lutz managed to steer the ship in the right direction, and is starting move there!
Looks like Lutz managed to steer the ship in the right direction, and is starting move there!
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 200
From: Sydney, Australia
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 95 Z-28 LT1:
I have heard that Holdens are designed here in Michigan.</font>
I have heard that Holdens are designed here in Michigan.</font>
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,215
From: Coppell, Texas
While we're talking about Holden design, I have a question. I read in I think it was Automobile magazine that Ian Cullum penned some of the Holdens. Any truth to this, or am I mistaken?
------------------
-Joshua
1997 Bright Red Trans Am WS6 M6
I was thinking dagger. -Steve Nash
------------------
-Joshua
1997 Bright Red Trans Am WS6 M6
I was thinking dagger. -Steve Nash
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 200
From: Sydney, Australia
Yes and No 
Ian Callum used to work for TWR, the parent company of HSV. He did much of the design of the HSV models up until he left for Jag. I beleive the VTII models were his last work for HSV.
Ian Callum used to work for TWR, the parent company of HSV. He did much of the design of the HSV models up until he left for Jag. I beleive the VTII models were his last work for HSV.
