View Poll Results: Choose!
Z/28 and SS should share an engine.
22
32.35%
Z/28 and SS should have their own specific engines.
46
67.65%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll
NOT a Z/28 vs SS thread.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
I guess I just don't understand why they can't have the same power output?
Z-28 is the plain wrapper 400 HP 6spd manual only, cloth seats, stripper track car.
SS comes with same motor, optional 4spd AOD, leather, stripes, a hood scoop, special "SS" badging and rims.
Then to make things real interesting, offer all the SS doo dads (stripes, scoop, leather, rims... everything but the badging) as options on the base Z-28.
The Z-28 would be the cool hot rodder's sleeper.
The SS, the muscle image cruiser.
The Z-28+, for the guy who wants the heritage of the Z-28 and the comfort of the SS. (Don't call it the "+" though... that's just to distinguish between the base Z-28 and loaded Z-28 for discussion/argument.)
Under the surface both cars would be identical. The differences would be on how each buyer wants to dress it up.
Z-28 is the plain wrapper 400 HP 6spd manual only, cloth seats, stripper track car.
SS comes with same motor, optional 4spd AOD, leather, stripes, a hood scoop, special "SS" badging and rims.
Then to make things real interesting, offer all the SS doo dads (stripes, scoop, leather, rims... everything but the badging) as options on the base Z-28.
The Z-28 would be the cool hot rodder's sleeper.
The SS, the muscle image cruiser.
The Z-28+, for the guy who wants the heritage of the Z-28 and the comfort of the SS. (Don't call it the "+" though... that's just to distinguish between the base Z-28 and loaded Z-28 for discussion/argument.)
Under the surface both cars would be identical. The differences would be on how each buyer wants to dress it up.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by jg95z28
[B]I guess I just don't understand why they can't have the same power output?
Z-28 is the plain wrapper 400 HP 6spd manual only, cloth seats, stripper track car.
[B]
[B]I guess I just don't understand why they can't have the same power output?
Z-28 is the plain wrapper 400 HP 6spd manual only, cloth seats, stripper track car.
[B]
That just won't happen. But...
Even if they both shared a motor, if a Z/28 had a firmer suspension, revised brakes, different wheels (like road race inspired vs say, chrome for SS), and some other nick-nacks and trim... and was content limited....ie., no convertible, no auto, etc., I think we'd be on the right track.
EVERYONE WOULD BE HAPPY.
Last edited by Z284ever; Feb 10, 2004 at 01:59 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
All we are doing is playing "The Name Game" here... some people dislike the 4th Gen Hierarchy... that's fine, but don't think that simply flip-flopping the names solves everything.
If you are going to bother with different models, make them really different.
If you are going to bother with different models, make them really different.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 929
OK, now I'll stick my foot in my mouth and tell you what I'd do assuming both SS and Z28 are offered at the same time.
Z28: standard 1LE package, 400 HP all aluminum V8, offered in base trim with some opts. available, as light as the factory can build it(no extras,less insulation,lightweight components etc). 6spd. standard with auto as an extra cost option. GMPD over the counter hop-up parts(warranty friendly),limited production.
SS: biggest V8 they can make happen available as an option,with the package available with any V8. All options available with standard trim a step up from Z28, 1LE available at extra cost,GMPD performance parts/pkgs. also available. equiptment delete options,standard auto with 6spd. option, unlimited production
ok, D&R
Z28: standard 1LE package, 400 HP all aluminum V8, offered in base trim with some opts. available, as light as the factory can build it(no extras,less insulation,lightweight components etc). 6spd. standard with auto as an extra cost option. GMPD over the counter hop-up parts(warranty friendly),limited production.
SS: biggest V8 they can make happen available as an option,with the package available with any V8. All options available with standard trim a step up from Z28, 1LE available at extra cost,GMPD performance parts/pkgs. also available. equiptment delete options,standard auto with 6spd. option, unlimited production
ok, D&R
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 368
From: Bay Area, CA
Why?
SS is a performance/trim strategy for Chevy to sell volume vehicles.
I'd say the Cobalt SS and Cobalt SS supercharged look pretty good and will be extremely competitive. The SC 3800 Impy/MC SS are merely place keepers until the 5.3 comes out. Also,all of the upcoming SS's will have generous power increases over their lower siblings....and will have more aggressive looks, including some very appealling, (and surprising for Chevrolet), wheel/tire combos.
SS is about upgrading the vehicles that you have----the ones that you intend to sell....not some vaporware notion that EVERY SS ever built.. or that ever should be built ought to be a '70 450 hp LS-6 big block Chevelle.
SS is about high volume and mass appeal.... a narrowly focused, limited interest, over the top package does not fit within this strategy.
I'm not shy about calling a spade; a spade...when it comes to some of Chevy's shortcomings.....but on this, Chevy is right on target.
SS is a performance/trim strategy for Chevy to sell volume vehicles.
I'd say the Cobalt SS and Cobalt SS supercharged look pretty good and will be extremely competitive. The SC 3800 Impy/MC SS are merely place keepers until the 5.3 comes out. Also,all of the upcoming SS's will have generous power increases over their lower siblings....and will have more aggressive looks, including some very appealling, (and surprising for Chevrolet), wheel/tire combos.
SS is about upgrading the vehicles that you have----the ones that you intend to sell....not some vaporware notion that EVERY SS ever built.. or that ever should be built ought to be a '70 450 hp LS-6 big block Chevelle.
SS is about high volume and mass appeal.... a narrowly focused, limited interest, over the top package does not fit within this strategy.
I'm not shy about calling a spade; a spade...when it comes to some of Chevy's shortcomings.....but on this, Chevy is right on target.
Yes yes, marketing and sales, after all it is business afterall. I wasn't really turning my nose up at the Cobalt, Imp, and MC SS though THIS time they're actually doing something drastic to the cars other than an upgraded suspension and stripes. What's the point of having 2 Cobalt SS though? The SS should be the one that's SCed and that's it.
IMO the SS should be the one you want to keep, not the one that you want to sell later on down the road.
SS shouldn't be high volume and mass appeal. Look at the 4th Gens to prove that. They were a narrowly focused, limited interest, over the top package that didn't fit in with "marketing" strategy. If they would have done then what they're doing with the Cobalt, Imp, and MC by SCing the cars then it would have made it an SS in my eyes for $4000 more bucks.
GM is actually getting their *** in gear now, all I can say is, "It's about time".
If you are going to bother with different models, make them really different.
I concur Dr.
Last edited by Melee Penguin; Feb 10, 2004 at 04:13 PM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by §h@dow Dr@gon
That's up to GM to decide and I really hope they figure out how before the 5th Gen is introduced.
That's up to GM to decide and I really hope they figure out how before the 5th Gen is introduced.
Specifics please?
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 368
From: Bay Area, CA
Once again Z284ever I voted that they should offer specific engines for the SS and Z28, BUT it CAN be done with the same engine. This time though the performance difference should be more than 10 or so horsepower that they did with the 4th Gen Z28 and SS.
By 2007 the C6 should have more than 400 and the C6 Z06 might get a bumb in horsepower because the Viper Coupe is in the works. Right now I think it's underrated for the C5 Z06 Guys. You could have the Z28 with the 400 LS2 and the SS could have the 10hp difference from the C6 at whatever numbers it's puttig down. I know it won't happen, but you could SC the LS2 for the SS and give the Z28 the LS2. How would you do it Z284Ever?
By 2007 the C6 should have more than 400 and the C6 Z06 might get a bumb in horsepower because the Viper Coupe is in the works. Right now I think it's underrated for the C5 Z06 Guys. You could have the Z28 with the 400 LS2 and the SS could have the 10hp difference from the C6 at whatever numbers it's puttig down. I know it won't happen, but you could SC the LS2 for the SS and give the Z28 the LS2. How would you do it Z284Ever?
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,769
From: cinci
o if only we could do like the 1st gen days...
302 for the z28 (think 2000 sema 302 camaro, check the articles section of the site for that- 435hp! rate at 400 and we're good)
and 6.0L for the ss
but since we're talking real world...
i think they should have different engines but i'm not sure what they would throw in each
i mean, 6.0L is the only engine really being tossed around here since we know we're not gonna have the 427 (supposed 427, i never heard the outcome of if the ls7 is 7.0L or 6.4L)
i wouldnt be opposed with a 6.0L alpha and a 6.4L beta
(not using names because this isnt a z28vs. ss thread
)
302 for the z28 (think 2000 sema 302 camaro, check the articles section of the site for that- 435hp! rate at 400 and we're good)
and 6.0L for the ss
but since we're talking real world...
i think they should have different engines but i'm not sure what they would throw in each
i mean, 6.0L is the only engine really being tossed around here since we know we're not gonna have the 427 (supposed 427, i never heard the outcome of if the ls7 is 7.0L or 6.4L)
i wouldnt be opposed with a 6.0L alpha and a 6.4L beta
(not using names because this isnt a z28vs. ss thread
)
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by §h@dow Dr@gon
How would you do it Z284Ever?
How would you do it Z284Ever?
This is what I said afew posts up:
"jg, I think it's safe to say that the days of "stripper" cars are history.
That just won't happen. But...
Even if they both shared a motor, if a Z/28 had a firmer suspension, revised brakes, different wheels (like road race inspired vs say, chrome for SS), and some other nick-nacks and trim... and was content limited....ie., no convertible, no auto, etc., I think we'd be on the right track.
EVERYONE WOULD BE HAPPY."
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Originally posted by unvc92camarors
o if only we could do like the 1st gen days...
302 for the z28 (think 2000 sema 302 camaro, check the articles section of the site for that- 435hp! rate at 400 and we're good)
and 6.0L for the ss
but since we're talking real world...
i think they should have different engines but i'm not sure what they would throw in each
i mean, 6.0L is the only engine really being tossed around here since we know we're not gonna have the 427 (supposed 427, i never heard the outcome of if the ls7 is 7.0L or 6.4L)
i wouldnt be opposed with a 6.0L alpha and a 6.4L beta
(not using names because this isnt a z28vs. ss thread )
o if only we could do like the 1st gen days...
302 for the z28 (think 2000 sema 302 camaro, check the articles section of the site for that- 435hp! rate at 400 and we're good)
and 6.0L for the ss
but since we're talking real world...
i think they should have different engines but i'm not sure what they would throw in each
i mean, 6.0L is the only engine really being tossed around here since we know we're not gonna have the 427 (supposed 427, i never heard the outcome of if the ls7 is 7.0L or 6.4L)
i wouldnt be opposed with a 6.0L alpha and a 6.4L beta
(not using names because this isnt a z28vs. ss thread
)
That'd be wicked
A Z/28 with 302 V8 (3 valve heads), variable cam phasing (or what ever they call it) 6 speed only and redlines 6500-7000rpm 400hp would be just great out of it. But yeah--probably just a dream
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,769
From: cinci
Originally posted by 305fan
That'd be wicked A Z/28 with 302 V8 (3 valve heads), variable cam phasing (or what ever they call it) 6 speed only and redlines 6500-7000rpm 400hp would be just great out of it. But yeah--probably just a dream
That'd be wicked
A Z/28 with 302 V8 (3 valve heads), variable cam phasing (or what ever they call it) 6 speed only and redlines 6500-7000rpm 400hp would be just great out of it. But yeah--probably just a dream
i'm not exactly sure how driveable it was though
435 horses factory though, for me it don't have to have great driveability