I am saying it right here that the 05' will NOT sell over 200k units. If I am wrong, then I will have no problem owning up to it. As far as the "Buzz" about this car and having the most in decades...............I think it only seems that way to you because you are in the Mustang world and surrounded by people who talk about it because for a Mustang person, it is really big. But to say that this car has had the most "buzz" in over 20 years..............................I will name one right here-C5, and I am not just saying that just because it is a Chevy.

 

So you're telling me that actually asking people who own one of these cars what they want in the new one so that they might actually buy another is wrong??!!?

Would you really be happier telling GM to "Just surprise me"??!!? If they asked you what do you want the next Camaro to look and perform like....you'd just defer??!!??

Fact is GM used to think they were asking the consumer what they wanted....you know "focus groups"....and we got the Asstek They thought they didn't need to ask Camaro people about Camaros.....they thought they could just ask a group of "potential" sports car buyers.........sad fact is, they had NO idea what to do with the feedback they got.......ask Charlie...they asked him about the number of cupholders!

There's a HUGE difference between asking Joe Schmoe off the street and asking someone who is a loyal, repeat buyer of a product.

 

Why not? Doesn't the current model already sell nearly that much?

As far as the buzz......there sure as heck ain't no f-body to distract a potential sports car buyer these days.....GM doesn't have anything comparable to sell them.......

Even Lutz & others from GM were said to be "blown away" by the '05 Mustang..........

 

No probs, Dude... I don't find anything you've said remotely offensive. I read your posts open-minded and take what you say seriously. I also take it as your opinion unless you state otherwise. It's all good w/ me.

I think you probably have a far better grip on my position than most too. It's just that we can manage to "talk" about our differences instead of cursing, ranting, or whining.
And I think that's cool.

As far as no self-respecting sporty car of today wearing 14's...
Would you take P185/60R14 all season tires on THIS? But they are standard equipment on the "Hatchback Sport" model!
J/K w/you pal! Thanks for the post!

 

SNEAKY,
I rebuked the guy at the time too, saying that we have no idea what competition might have to offer, what the actual MSRP will be, we don't even know what the top engine models are yet. But again, I've talked face-to-face, not internet chat, with many people lately who can't get enough of this car. They want more pics. They want to see it in person. Heck, I've even read of those who want it included in the Living Legends Tour and Centennial Celebration.

You are right about me... I study Mustangs continuously. To keep abreast of values, market movements, indicators of trends that might reveal future collectability, etc. I do it for fun, AND for money, so I take it seriously, very seriously. But that should be all the more reason for you to afford me some credibility here. I'm not a giggly girl who just casually owns one Mustang and thinks this is the only car in the world. I'm even telling you that I was cautious earlier, and I still am, but I'm also man enough to admit I was wrong for doubting (Reno Leigh I think it was) the guy that first posted his thoughts about busting 250k. Besides, like Doug just said, it sells 180k+ right now. Is a 10% gain on a brand new release so hard to grasp? I'm gonna respectfully hold my position on this one for now.

 

I agree with you on one point, you are confused, IMO. JKJKJK

From what I have heard, this car was designed by one heck of a designer, J.C. Mays. He and his design team worked with team Mustang, whom were talking to actual tried and true Mustang owners. Its not like they were interviewing old people in the mall or something.

Whom better to poll than the people that love the cars? Think of it this way. People with gas in thier veins telling people at Ford with gas in thier veins who works with a designer with gas in his veins and vision. Oh I almost forgot, the person with his name on the building says this is his most favored car that his company makes. What an ideal convergence, its like a fantasy dream or something.

How could any car person not love this car? I feel like buying one just cuz of the process and the rightness about the whole thing, and I am mad at FoMoCo! I have told my friends and family how much I like the new Stang and that I might get one. They call me a sell out and a few other names, but screw what they think, I would be happy while I was behind the wheel.

BTW, I think J Mays will become one of the most legendary designers of all time.

I think team Camaro is doing things now the right way as well, and both us and the 5th gen will be a much better for it.

Proud Pony, it was me that predicted 250K units sold. You are right about the problems that may come up along the way, but I am sticking to my prediction. Even if I am wrong and they sell *ONLY* 200K, that is still pretty respectable in todays car world. It would not surprise me one bit if it sold even more than 250k for years, especially if they sold them abroad. If the car is small enough and good enough, it will sell in Europe. Dont laugh, but if they made a turbodiesel version with some guts, it would sell even better over there.

PS: IMO, I would rather an aerodynamics person go nowhere near the 5th gen while it is in its gestation. I want a Camaro, not some featureless form that has a .29cd.

 

Nice post Reno. You have echoed the same comments I've heard from probably 100 people now - in face-to-face conversations. Everyone from my car-insurance provider to the guy who services the vending machines in my office (he saw the pics of my cars on my wall and came in talking Mustangs?!?!) have queried me for all I know about it and when they can see one. I'm definitely more with you now than a week or two ago.

And nice spin on the diesel! I have not thought of that angle at all! Wouldn't some people be lit-off if turbo diesels sold 40k units to individuals in Europe, and 10K more units to car rental/fleets there too! Holy smokes!

 

I know a lot of people aren't crazy about the "retro" look of the car.... but this is remeniscent of the 1967 Mustang - one of the best looking cars of all time (excluding exotics). [ 472,000 Mustang buyers agreed in 1967. ]


Agreed.

 

This seems a good time to relate something I read about the 4th gens origins. The book I read it in was called "The Art of Automobile Design" by C Edison Armi.

The author interviewed Irv Rybicki in 1985 July while he was V.P. of GM design. Rybicki said the first concept drawings for the F4 were done in July of 1980. No misprint, 1980. They made a full scale fiberglass model in 1981. They let it sit in the halls of the design area of the tech center a few years, and since it got a lot of looks, they went with it. No Camaro owners polled in the F4 design process. (IMO the people in the tech center who were staring at it were wondering how many people got hurt in that wreck!

I realize that the FWD turmoil in GM at the time also was a factor in the car taking so long to come to market after it was designed. But just think, the F4 was in effect 22 years old last year. Now that I think about it, thats pretty Retro in itself!

The fact that the car was essentially done by the time of the interview in 1985 would also explain how car mags got accurate renderings published so many years ahead of the cars actual production.

Reno

 

Reno brings up a good point on international sales of Mustang (and by extension Camaro). If these cars were compact enough and properly equipped, why couldn't they sell well overseas.

The 4th gen Camaro was a complete failure in the Euro market. Find some British mag road tests of it, and they are not shy about telling why.

Does anyone remember the 3rd gen Z28E. It was an '82 Z/28 decked out for Europe. It had some cosmetic tweaks (which looked pretty decent) and NO smog gear....Europe did not require it at the time.
The product planners figured those Europeans couldn't possibly want a manual trans (auto only), rear wheel discs, (drums only), or highest horsepower engine ( LG4 only...but rated at 165hp thanks to no cat).....so none of these features were offered on the Z28E. GUESS WHAT! It flopped in Europe.

What a shame and what a lost opportunity. Dave Hill is very keen on making the C6 a success ...not only here....but in Europe.

That may not be a bad idea for Camaro.

 

I hope team Camaro is thinking globally as well. No reason not to sell em everywhere you can. I would be very happy if Camaro sold 250K units, and insanely happy if there was an F5 Firebird that sold an additional 100K worldwide. It could happen with the right planning and design. The more they make, the cheaper they are for us to buy. And GM needs to do all they can to make the F5 affordable.

Reno

 

My opinion of the new Mustang is that is it definitely one sweet ride. When I first saw it, I though "what kind of piece of crap has ford build now." After looking at a few pictures of it, my opinion changes quickly. Dang that thing reminds me so much of Eleanor! If I weren't diehard GM, one of those babies would be sitting in my driveway in about 2 years. Unlike the new GTO, when you look at it you know that it is a Mustang. Ford definitely outdid GM on it's bid to "return to its roots."

 

Retro, not retro, who cares? The car looks good. As long as Ford is stealing good ideas from the past, then great. At least the car isn't dull or ugly.

 

I dunno the front looks shady, but read/sides look awesome IMHO.

 

You can't bring up the Aztek for every argument against GM. We all know that it was a bad descision in design. I believe that if the designer of say, the F5, does his homework on the car(not even going out and asking owners about it) than that car will please most of the buyers and loyalists. GM never "asked" the people about past Camaros and I think EVERY one turned out great, and that absolutely includes the 4th gen. A lot has to do with the designer and people who will let them do thier job and not interfere. Don't forget that you have to design the car for the people who are not the extream loyalists so you can increase market share. Gm just needs to save time and go ahead and hire me as thier chief designer.............who cares if I still have a year before I graduate.