No, because price - or more accurately - perceived price is a big part of what killed the F-body in the first place.

The last thing we need is dealers stocking 85% $34,000 "SS" models again, only now with another 5 or 10% "limited production models" on top of that.

 

Of all the car shows I made it to that had an F-body in them the Camaro/Firebird on display, for the most part, illicited three reactions:

1. "They still make these?"

2. Drooling

3. "They want how much for this car?!?!?"


To build a super camaro there must be a better reason than just "bragging rights."

 

(I'm using this "smilely" because there isn't one that correctly shows me beating my head against a wall in frustration).

Again, an explanation:

a. Cobra is matching Corvette in all round performance.
b. Cobra will soon attempt to match Z06 in acceleration.
c. If Corvette performance jumps, Cobra performance is going to jump to match it.
d. Camaro is cheaper then Corvette (meaning Corvette makes more money per car than Camaro).
e. Camaro is sold in the same showroom as Corvette.
f. Because of this, it's unlikely Camaro will match Corvette performance (though it may be only a click behind) and it most certainly will not beat the Corvette's performance.
g. Since Camaro will not beat Corvette's performance, it will not beat Cobra's performance because Cobra = Corvette performancewise.

That's about as simple as it can be put.

I know a decade of the 4th gen outgunning Cobras has screwed up quite a few peoples heads to the point of being scared for life if you don't get a 500 horse Cobra beating Camaro. I also am aware by some of the posts here, some of you may have issues that may replace the term "Going Postal" with "Going Camaro enthusiast", but Cobra isn't playing in our sandbox anymore. The GT is, and so is the Mach1.

If your world is about to crash, then write Chevrolet & tell them you don't want a Corvette anymore, and that you'd rather have a Camaro that runs like a Corvette as the top performing car at Chevrolet because you want to go after the Cobra.

Just be sure to let me know their response.

Go ahead........ I'll wait.

 

Guion,
You're so right.

I remember a math concept way back in geometry (or maybe even earlier).

It went something like; "If A=B and B=C, then C=A". It was the "Law of" something (I can't remember the name).

We can use this theorem for this argument.

Let's assign variables first.

Corvette = A
Cobra = B
Camaro = C

If A=B, and B=C, then C=A.
We all know that GM won't let C=A.
GM can incrrease A, but Ford will increase B to match; so that A will always equal B.

Because B will equal A, and C will NEVER equal A, C will never equal B.

Wish I could remember the name of that law.

 

Hujass -

It's the Transitive Property of Algebra that's controlling camaro's destiny..

 

Then the Corvette has to move to levels that the M*stang can't reach so the Camaro can do what its suppossed to.

 

50g is way too much for a Camaro to compete with the Cobra..GM should have a Camaro model that compete with the Cobra is performance and Price

Let the Vette kill the Ford GT

 

don't know if this question is right for this thread or not (but hey, it's at the top of the list so why not? )
isnt it like the camaro-corvette thing with the cobra-ford gt thing?
i mean, i can't see the cobra coming close to infringing on the ford gt because one is 50k and the other is 150k
i mean, i can see the same resemblance (sp?) of a higher-lower clash going on there too
so wouldnt it make sense that the cobra be less power and compete with the top camaro (less power as in like not the ford gt level) and then the vette and gt go at it
i dont know, just a thought, seems to make sense to me...
atleast until someone corrects me

 

So what you're proposing is that GM move Corvette up so high, that Ford will not chase it with the Mustang?

OK. So at what point do typical Corvette buyers say, "ya know what. I don't care how good the new Vette is, I'm not spending $X dollars on this car."

And what is that dollar amount? 70K, 80K, 90K?

And what if it beats the GT. It would probably cost close to what the GT costs.

You guys gotta realize something.

Corvette cannot be arbitrarily moved up the scale JUST so the Camaro can be moved up to fight the Mustang.

There are prices to worry about.

 

That top C6 ZL1 or whatever should do nicely. I really don't think that Chevrolet will let the Camaro get beat out in any area of performance by the M*stang, especially for its return/re-introduction. I bet the car will really be something to talk about and make F*rd go....DOH. If the Camaro comes back and isn't as fast or is lacking in any field, it isn't gonna look good.

 

Alrighties, what a great subject to Post on. 500 hp Cobra right? Can it get it to hook correctly this time? Anyways, most of the guys here are right about the Cobra being competition for the Vette. Here's the lineup:
Viper = Z06
Cobra=Corvette
Mach1=SS Camaro
M GT =Z28 Camaro
M V6 =V6maro

As far as you ZL1 guys go, the ZL1 Vette will NOT be aimed at making Ford go back to the drawing boards on the Cobra to make another Cobra R. The ZL1 Vette will be trying to out perform the Ford GT. BUT same as the 2002 ZL1 Camaros will also be in the same league of pricing as the Ford GT. Don't worry about the new Cobra that's gunning for the Vette. GMs C6 will definitely win THAT war.

 

The reason they sell so many corvettes is because 1) It represents a great value 2) there is little in it's price class that can compete with it. I wonder how many corvettes they would sell a year if they didn't start at $40,000. Probably not 40,000 a year, by a long shot.

If I were GM, I wouldn't change the corvette formula. It's worked longer than the Camaro formula, the Ford GT/40 formula, the Cobra formula, the T-bird formula, the Mustang formula, the Firebird Formula (har har), the Fiero formula, etc. How many cars have lasted more than 50 years and still resemble what they started out like? Clearly, the corvette formula works.

 

Nope. I don't see it like that at all.

There will probably be more Mustang models than Camaro/Corvette models combined.

V6 Camaro and V6 Mustang will probably compete head to head. But, I'm not sure if I necessarily see a Camaro model competing directly with a Mustang GT, however.

With presumably more torque, more horsepower, and better suspension....I can see the "entry level performance" Camaro...handily outperforming the Mustang GT. Maybe even matching Mach 1 models in performance.Think of the Mustang GT as similar to a base Camaro with a 5.3 and fancy wheels....I don't believe there will be any such Camaro model.

I can also see an even faster Camaro model up the performance ladder...easily outperforming Mach1/Boss...at least matching a 400 hp Mustang and nipping at the heels of a 500 hp Mustang around a road course.

I think that strategy might be to effectively "bracket" the Mustang performance models with fewer but more effective Camaro performance models...or that's what I would do anyway.

So in short...I don't expect Camaro to compete model for model with the next Mustang, on anything other than the base car.

 

The poll needs to be rewritten.

Inlude a $40,000 500hp Camaro and you're about on target.

Look...

Quit using algebra... cause I'm going to whip out some calculus on yer scurvy hides....

ON A DOLLAR PER DOLLAR BASIS FORD CANNOT BUILD A CAR THAT OUTPERFORMS A GM VEHICLE.

Sorry, Ford homers, them's the facts.

Camaro did it for years, and the GT is about to be banished to the pile of vehicles that tried to overshadow Corvette and couldn't.

Cobras running with C6 Z06's?

When pigs fly.

Speaking of pigs... anybody see the rumors flying out all over the internet that the Mustang GT is going to end up weighing in at 3800 lbs.?

Do the math. 500hp @ 3800 lbs. = 407hp @ 3100 lbs.

or... conversely...

500hp @ 3100 lbs. = 612hp @ 3800 lbs.

And just for kicks...

625hp @ 3100 lbs. = 766hp @ 3800 lbs.



Anybody ever think that the GTO has a reasonable chance of weighing less than a MUSTANG GT??????

 

I still don't think the mustang is going to come in weighing in nearly as much as a body on frame Crown Vic.

BTW, does GM make a small car that for 18-19K can outperform an SVT Focus in most or all performance measurables? Does GM currently offer a car that for $24K can compete with a Mustang GT? A $35K Pickup truck that can compete with the Lightning?

And that pile of vehicles that the GT is going to be banished to... does that include other comparable EXOTIC cars, like an F360 or 911 turbo, for example that offer similar performance and rarity?

...Kind of a bit biased to say that ford "ON A DOLLAR PER DOLLAR BASIS FORD CANNOT BUILD A CAR THAT OUTPERFORMS A GM VEHICLE."