The fact that with no money down, it will cost me over $500 a month, for one thing! Big $$$ for a Grand Prix, in my opinion. Awesome car nonetheless...

But oh wait, I'm a traitor now and will be a DCX employee in 2 weeks Guess the Pontiac purchase won't happen... I firmly believe you have to drive what you sell. I won't be buying a Chrysler product, but I'll have one as a demo...and I'm selling my current Grand Prix.

 

Most people don't buy that way. It seems like a lot because you don't have anything to put down up front. Not many folks are out buying a 303 HP sport sedan as their very first car

 

Nailed better than I could ever do!

You hit the bullseye on the 5.0. over the 4th gen Camaro. Hit on the head what makes a daily driver fun, and put the GTO and Mustang into perspective.

GTO is REFINED & fast. Mustang GT is FUN and quick. For the price, Mustang GT is the best deal on earth in it's price range. If you spend $6,000 more, you get a car that oozes more quality that happens to be quicker. You're going to see new Mustangs on the drag strip. You aren't going to see too many GTOs (even discounting for sales numbers).

If you want an budget BMW GTO is the only game in town (and it's certainly on my list). It's faster, quicker, and better made than the Mustang, and will be riding around tight, rattle and squeak-free long after the Mustang (and any other US made car) develops them. But it sells at a price premium over the GT.



The only time I notice any difference with my Thunderbird's IRS over my Camaro's live axle is on sharp REALLY rough or bumpy sharp curves. The 'Bird easily has the same roadholding, the Camaro rides marginally rougher, and in day to day driving on 99.9% of the roads I drive on, IRS' behavior is un noticable. But again, the Camaro suspension is stock, and I'm running 245s all around the "Bird.

 

I'm basing this on the seemingly consistent reports that the GT is down in the torque department and not so quick off the line. That, and my extreme love of those qualities. Don't get me wrong, as I said, I like the Mustang and would like to take one for a ride. But, I really love my GTO and just can't imagine the Mustang making me any happier.

 

And so the $6k price-difference-myth continues...

 

First of all, yeah... I dug this now outdated thread of 2 now dead cars out of the archives. Here's why.

Back then, although I had driven plenty of Holdens including a Monaro, and since then I've driven a couple of GTOs around the block, I never drove a last gen 4.6 Mustang GT. I drove a brand new 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 about 2 weeks ago and I rented the old V6 Mustang numerous times, but never the 4.6, D2C coupe.

I wrote a letter to Car and Driver accusing them of copping out by adding a "Got to have it" catagory in order for the Mustang to win their comparison (they were recently in a dispute with GM over fallout regarding an earlier test of a GTO press car which they took racing and broke, which GM didn't appriciate... and ecalated to a point which prompted Bob Lutz to threaten to withdraw advertising from mags that gave unfair evaluations to their cars). While I called the Mustang a better value for what it was, the GTO (as a Cobra/Mach 1 competitor) was easily the better car. Now, I don't quite agree.

Just recently I came across 2 car lots across from each other. On one side was a black LS1 GTO with 45K miles and on the other a black 06 Mustang GT with 50K. Figured it was a great opportunity to do a quick back to back of the 2 since I had some time to blow.

Both were in excellent condition, and bothe were obviously well taken care of by their owners. Both drives took place on a good run up a long winding not busy 4 lane road, where I got a chance to really play with the handling, feel, & power of both.... back to back.... with only about 20 minutes between them. A lot of my impressions changed from back then.


The GTO was no doubt powerful. I was tossable. It was a very capable coupe. But it also felt tall. The interior proportions reminded me of something based on a Mustang Fox chassis (in a good way). The exhaust sounded great, a nice gurgle with a base that reminded me of my old LT1 Camaro. The interior looked the same as it did when it was new.

But the Mustang GT was, I hate to say it, much better.

The Mustang felt wider and it's high belt line made it feel bigger (both cars are close to the same size). The Mustang's shifter made the GTOs horrible. And while the GTO was a blast on the winding road, the Mustang was just plain solid and stable (the road was smooth, so I didn't get a taste of the live axle's disadvantages.

Up till I got a chance to try both cars back to back, although I gave the Mustang GT the nod, up till last week when I drove the 2 back to back, if I came across the 2 for about the same price, I'd choose the GTO hands down. It was a tougher car, a better riding car, had more to it, and I liked the stealth look. Not any more.

Although the Mustang had a bit of a "sitting in a bathtub" feeling next to the GTO's "well made Fox Mustang" feeling, I have to back track and admit the GT was the better car. It even feels at least as quick as my LS1 by the seat of the pants (supported by car mag tests of the time).

GTO is still a very good car, but if the 2 were going for the same price in similar condition, I'd have to agree with Charlie's assesment from years ago... I'd go with the Mustang.



I tried to do the same thing last month with the current 5.0 Mustang and the new Camaro SS. However, while the Ford dealer had pretty much every 5.0 in stock backed up by a manual, the Chevy dealer down the street had none...zero...nada...zip Camaro SSs with a manual in stock. The only manual Camaro in the place was a base V6 that was a customer special order.

 

That is why the LS2 GTO is that much better . I shopped Mustangs when I was looking for a new car and ended up with my GTO. The Mustang GT I drove was also a 2005 model. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't solid to me either. In contrast, I feel that the GTO feels much more planted on the road than the GT. Even on the short test drive, the solid rear-end is much squirrelier the the IRS based GTO. The interior on the GTO is a lot better as well and the seats are just amazing. The 6-speed is also favorable when compared to the 5 speed and the usable back seat is also a plus. Overall, I picked the GTO (obviously, it's in my sig). Everybody is going to feel different things when they drive a car though and have their priorities.

Now...if the 2005 GT that I test drove was the 2011 that is available today, well, that would be a different story .

 

I can see why some people might choose a Mustang GT over the GTO... but I can't say that I would.

I suppose that 4.6L Mustang was close to a 4th Gen in acceleration, but it should always lose even if by a slight amount. It is definitely down several MPH in trap speed. As far as the LS1 GTO, it is certainly slower than a 4th Gen stock... the LS2 GTO is almost even with them... although the exhaust may not be as nice to listen to as on the 04 GTO...

I think the GTO seems like a better all around car, at least in interior design and layout. I never cared for that particular body style of the Mustang, so between it and the GTO it is about a toss up for me. Maybe the Mustang if I am absolutely just picking between driving fun between the two cars stock, otherwise the GTO is what I would take.

The new Mustang is a completely different story though. It looks better outside and inside. The engines are so much better all across the board.

 

Every test I've seen of the 4.6 D2C Mustang GT puts it dead even with LS1 Camaros up to the quarter mile (0-60 @ 5.1 GT & 5.2 SS...yes, the GT scored a tick quicker than the SS..., quarter at 13.8@103 Mustang & 13.8@104 Camaro, CD 2/99 & 1/05 respectively), after which the LS1 seems to get into it's element (0-130 @ 24.8 Camaro, 25.6 Mustang). You aren't the only one who thinks '05-'10 GTs won't touch LS1s.

Regarding LS2 GTOs and LS1 Camaros, there is no "almost" about it! The LS2 GTOs simply smokes LS1 Camaros (0-60 in 4.8, quarter at 13.3@107, 0-130 in 19.6).

LS2 GTOs are also never more than 0.2 sec behind with LS3 Camaros in any acceleration measure (while consitantly 2 mpg better in fuel economy).

LS1 GTOs weren't exactly that far behind LS1 Camaros either (5.3 to 60 and 14 flat in the quarter, again to the SS' 5.2 and 13.8).


Both cars I tested felt as fast as my B4C by the seat of the pants. Both cars had great feel. The GTO felt like I could easily recover from any misstep. The Mustang GT felt like..... my current Camaro.

 

And suspension, it seems the target group for the 05-09 cars were 60 and 70 somethings suffering from severe hemorroidal flare-up! It was definetly a very softly tuned suspension made even more incompetent with all-season tires.

When the S-197 launched, the V6 should have had the GT suspension and the GT should have had the Bullitt suspension - which might still be a bit on the soft side - I'm more inclined to say the GT500 bits and pieces would have been better still, and the GT500 should have been fitted with the FR3/SGT hardware. As well as having a summer tire option for the V6 and GT from the get go.

Speaking of the SGT, IIRC Car and Driver had an SGT at VIR a few years ago and unfortunately it was fitted with the standard all season BF Goodrich KDWS 235/50R18 tires which really screwed the handling on the car. Its to bad Shelby didn't take the time to fit the GT500's slightly less crappier 255/45R18 Goodyear F1 Supercar tires, C&D would have been more impressed.

From what I've read the Track Pack and Brembo suspension packages are just a tick below the SGT/FR3 suspension since at least the 2010 Track Pack suspsension was derived from the GT500 suspension which is about 20% lighter than the SGT/FR3 suspension tune.

Its to bad Ford didn't fit the S-197 with a Watt's Link as original equipment, the 3-link works pretty good, but the panhard rod makes it a bit disconcerting when your really working the suspension hard (like a full throttle blast off of a nice tight turn). Something I could really see shaking the confidence of a person used to an IRS equipped car even on a smooth road.

 

I don't want to get into mag racing but I disagree that any of those comparisons translate very well into the real world. First of all you are comparing times taken in different years rather than same track, same day, same driver. But just for argument's sake, Smith's best time in a 6speed LS1 GTO was 13.52@105.6, whereas in a 6speed Fbodies he has had 12.89@108mph in cold air and 12.96@107 in heat... I don't think he has driven an LS2 for the mags.

The GTO has a few advantages over an LS1 Fcar... in manual form it has slightly more aggressive gears. The rear end ratios were slightly more aggressive than an Fbody. The LS2 GTO made more power than an LS1 Fcar. But lest we forget the GTO weighed several hundred pounds more than an Fcar, and it does not launch as well with the IRS. All in all the LS1 GTO is down several tenths compared to an Fcar and like 4mph in trap. An LS2 will basically run the same thing as an LS1 Fcar with identical drivers... the extra several hundred pounds are offset by the extra 50HP and it is a wash... that is why the times are more or less the same for the stock cars if you actually see them at the same track at the same day.

As far as the Mustang, I never said it wouldn't touch an LS1 Fcar. It is close enough that driver skill may determine the outcome, but same driver the LS1 Fcar will win. It i about the same weight, but down on power. That is why the trap speeds are always a couple MPH less than an LS1 Fcar.

 

Yeah that's true... I wasn't being complete, but the suspension is very good as well.

I know what you are talking about with the panhard v Watts link since my Formula has a Watts link Haven't driven a Mustang with one but I probably would be looking into getting one if I had a Mustang.

 

After 4 years and 9 months.....you finally agree with me...

 

For me, driving-wise, its a toss-up.

However, if I want to feel like a adult... GTO; if I want to feel like a 16-year old girl... Mustang. GTO for me... hands down!

 

So you admit sometimes you are in a 16 year old girl kind of mood?/. Guy, as a guy that owned a
ls1 Camaro and a 2008 gt, I can say the mustang can ot touch it in acceleration. The time being quoted for the ls1 is way low.