Z284ever

If I were into bikes....I think I'd get a Ducati. If for no other reason than the sound.

Kris93/95Z28

Guys, a lot of people don't understand the GTO has only about 2 options that cost you money. Transmission (auto gets gas guzzler tax) & 18" Wheels (IIRC They are $245 more) Everthing else is standard.

To just compare MSRP is silly. Find me any Mustang GT sitting on the lot that doesn't have any options, and comes in at MSRP. The GTO will be very close if not right on its MSRP since the dealers can't load them up.

The GTO, IMHO, is worth the difference in price.

WERM

It's pretty arrogant to suggest that Mustang buyers are posers and only "true enthusiasts" would choose GTO, especially when that car is pushing 3800lbs. Talk about falling short in a key area...

I'm just glad I can look at things objectively and appreciate both cars, even if I happen to enjoy one of them more than the other.

Bob Cosby

I'm not a true enthusiast. Nope. Never done an enthusiastic thing with cars in my life - and I'm sure wouldn't do well if I were to compare credentials with the self-described "enthusiast" in this thread. You'd think that with all the things the GTO has going for it, it would have sold more in a year than Mustang sold in an average month. Must be the "more well-informed than ever before" buyers out there making mostly the wrong decisions.

Guess that's why I like Mustangs (and pssst....don't tell anybody, but I really like the LSx engines too).

SSbaby

Good post.

However, Commodores arch rival here in Oz is over 4000lbs and much more 'rewarding' to drive (seat of pants impression) than Commodore/Monaro, especially in the eyes of the scribes. Only thing is, if you get out your stop watch, the Fords are around 2 secs slower around a 1-mile track.

My point? The 'fun factor' is an individual thing. Be thankful that Mustang and GTO arrive at the same outcome, just go about it in different ways!

Kris93/95Z28

I agree the "Enthusiast" comment was dumb.

But, you can't compare numbers alone. The GTO wan't meant to sell 175,000+ units, like the Mustang sells. IIRC, the GTO production was double the Monaro production. From what I've picked up from this and other boards, GM couldn't get anymore GTOs from Australia, even if they could sell them.

BigDarknFast

Jeez, some folks sure got worked up over one word (either 'true' or 'poser', not sure which )

If it makes those folks feel better about hailing the mighty Mustang, I will say - there are lots of true enthusiasts buying the new Stang and yep it's a great car. There are some things I don't like about them, but of course the GTO has its foibles too (as have been repeatedly pointed out ).

However, I don't see it as 'arrogant' to point out that buyers more 'serious' (gee I hope that word is ok with the Ford fans reading here) about getting down the track quicker... are buying 400 HP GTO's.

Incorrect. According to kbb.com ( http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.s...POGT_G;Pontiac ) the GTO is 3725 lb and the Mustang GT is 3488, not exactly a lightweight itself (guess it's 'pushing 3500 lb' itself...)

And just so BobC will have some 'internet racer' stuff to complain about, here's the SCCA testing where the 05 GTO beat an 05 Mustang GT in 0-60, 1/4 mile (by nearly .4s!), slalom and road course... http://www.pontiac.com/gto/contextua..._chartnext.jsp

(The Car&Drivel article I referenced above already showed the GTO brakes better from 70-0... gee what else is there?)

(Tell me again... which car should we expect to be more fun to drive???)

Bob Cosby

The Mustang drag racing crowd is far, far more serious than the GTO drag racing crowd. Not even sort of comparable, but nice try.

Tell me....what organization do you race with? What's your best ET?

Bob

BigDarknFast

Leave it to you Bob, to feel the need to resort to personal challenges. No, I haven't the extensive track history you do, and I'm sure you can pee farther too

Obviously - there are MORE Mustang racers, since there are more Mustangs. I was speaking of stock for stock. What exactly are you trying to prove?

BTW, do YOU own a 2005 Mustang GT? What, you don't?

Bob Cosby

I kind of thought you had me on ignore....oh well.

There was no personal challenge there at all - I don't currently own either a Mustang or any other performance car. It was simply a response to your ridiculas claim.

Probably, but that's not an issue here. Still, I think it was a valid question. You said, and I quote, "buyers more 'serious' about getting down the track quicker" are buying new GTOs. You have a new GTO, thus you must be serious about getting down the track. So I'll ask again, how quick have you gone?

Obviously - though that isn't the point I was making.

No you weren't. You were attempting to say that "serious enthusiasts" buy the GTO vice the Mustang because of its superior 1/4 mile performance. I don't disagree at all that stock for stock it will quite handly beat a Mustang GT - but your other assertions are quite inaccurate.

That you're wrong, mainly because you are a brand-blind GM nutswinger, IMHO.

See above, I do not. Do you?

Speaking of BTW.........BTW...remember that extra 100 HP you were crowing about above? Why is it that the 400 HP GTO only outruns the 300 HP GT by .4 seconds in the 1/4 mile, using the numbers you researched? The weight difference make up for all of that?

Hmmm....can't be the IRS, IRS is a good thing. Can't be the extra OD gear, an extra OD gear is a good thing. Can't be the outstanding interior, that's a good thing. Oh well - guess we'll never know. Maybe its the wider tires? You know...wider than the "wimpy" (your word) 235s that you were harping about on the Mustang. Yes yes...those massive 245s or....perish the thought....235s (as an optional 'upgrade'). Damn.

Guess I better brush up on my magazine racing skills.

As for which car is more fun to drive....I think Charlie said it pretty well. Perhaps he's a closet Mustang apologist. Whadda ya think?

Bob

PS....for everyone but BD&D, I have nothing at all against the GTO, but please don't tell.

JasonD

PM or e-mail. Pick one and use that to **** at each other, not here.

Thank you all!

ProudPony

Charlie,
Why do you wait until I am in Bum#u#k China (LITERALLY) to post a thread like this?!?!

It is 3:30pm here Sunday afternoon, I just had lunch, the offices are empty, so I hacked onto a computer for some web time, and I see this thread. Can't call home (it's 3:30 am Sunday morning - wife will NOT want to talk!!!)

Well, you have started quite the conversation, and I applaud all - both sides - for the honest commentaries.

For me, the fun-factor is everything. I have faster cars than my '89 LX5.0. I have more refined cars. I have newer cars, and older cars. But amazingly, I find myself just constantly getting into it to go to work or run around. Guys at work ask me why I don't drive my ________ (fill in blank) instead of that old car. My immediate response is a smile, followed with an "I dunno - I just like driving this one - it's fun." That's why it has 229,000 miles on it, and I am still having a hard time deciding to take it off the road and give it a restoration and retirement.

As for the 2005 models - riden/driven several now, and still have the same take I had almost 18 months ago... love it. Waiting my turn on "the list" for a shot at a Shelby, so not going to put $ on a plain GT yet.

One last thing... Charlie, I'd like to revisit a thread from a year ago - link is attached here.
Somebody- who shall remain nameless!!! - wrote about their test drive in a new V6 Mustang...
"As for the chassis, it sure feels an awful lot like my 3rd gen (SURPRISE!)....as does the driving position. It feels more structurally rigid than my IROC though. But if I didn't know about cars, and someone told me this was a rebodied '82 Camaro....I'd believe it....that's how similar the driving experience is. And before anyone asks me -YES - there is no doubt that you can feel that live rear axle under your butt. It's a well controlled live rear axle ...but you know it's there. If you're craving more sophisticated chassis dynamics, you probably won't find your fix in a V6 Mustang."

I was late in replying, but in post #53 of that thread, I wrote... "I don't see your posts as bashing the car at all, just stating what you felt/saw/heard. I just think you cheated yourself out of a much better drive in a 5spd GT! "

It would appear that you finally got that test drive in a 5spd GT... the kind of test drive I got back in late 2004.

Put me down for stating that I think the GTO is the more refined and upscale performance car that is going to appeal to a more refined clientelle, whereas the Mustang GT is going to have a much broader appeal simply because it offers so many more variations of itself, with flexibility of options, and numerous trim levels. For a daily driver - please note this again... DAILY DRIVER, I PERSONALLY prefer something that drinks 87 octane and doesn't stumble and stagger, has easy ingress/egress, easy to park, easy to see out of, and is FUN to drive. I don't need 400hp to fight gridlock on I-40, and the 6th gear does nothing for me at 35mph. Now if I can get onto a back road and toss it through some 35mph-rated curves at 50-55mph, or do a little goosing it now and then to smack around a rice-burner from time to time, that makes things even better (and more fun too!!) These are exactly the reason my '89 will be the first car I get into when I get back home, and this is the essence of the thread as I read it from Charlie's first post.

Z284ever

You dog Proud. Believe it or not, I thought about those comments that you made to me back then, as I was starting this thread. But you were right!

I've been driving alot of cars lately - GTO, Impala SS, TB SS, MC SS, GP GXP - all of them have their good ponts, but the 5 speed manual Mustang GT, is the most fun to drive out of all of them (according to me ).

Anyway, I gotta go. I might buy a GTO today. A 1964 GTO. Geeze, I know I'm gonna regret this...........

Jason E

Let us know how that one goes

Personally, I drove our silver GXP again yesterday...that car is evil. Sunroof open, windows down, temps in the upper 60s for the first time this year, some AC DC bellowing from the Monsoon, and the best road I know of is only 3 miles from the dealership Like I said in another thread...it looks right, it goes right, it stops right, it handles right, it SOUNDS right, and it has every little option I'd want, and nothing more.

I want that car

BigDarknFast

What in the world are you waiting for? I drove a GXP... very nice.