MotorTrend test of 2011 GT Mustang
03-29-2010, 02:38 PM
#46
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Z28x, its funny that you say that, as many on other forums, prefer the V6 fascia.
That said, at this performance level, with factory tires, improving times gets to a point of diminishing returns. The old adage of .1 per 10hp or 100lbs, does not apply, when you are talking about huge hp numbers and seriously low times. Aerodynamics, weight, and traction all become much bigger issues, at these performance levels. This is why the GT500 times are all over the map.
The reality is, most will never be able to drive either of these cars to their limits. Kudos to both, of course. I will look to the Alpha Camaro with great interest, as lower weight, for better tossability, is always a plus to me. Of course, who knows, with the improvements to the V6 Mustang, I certainly wouldn't be against having a V6 Vert, either (a Vert will be my toy).
That said, at this performance level, with factory tires, improving times gets to a point of diminishing returns. The old adage of .1 per 10hp or 100lbs, does not apply, when you are talking about huge hp numbers and seriously low times. Aerodynamics, weight, and traction all become much bigger issues, at these performance levels. This is why the GT500 times are all over the map.
The reality is, most will never be able to drive either of these cars to their limits. Kudos to both, of course. I will look to the Alpha Camaro with great interest, as lower weight, for better tossability, is always a plus to me. Of course, who knows, with the improvements to the V6 Mustang, I certainly wouldn't be against having a V6 Vert, either (a Vert will be my toy).
03-29-2010, 02:39 PM
#47
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Location: Brighton, IL
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Exactly. This is most likely what I will likely do as soon as the Firehawk and the bike are sold. Every new article on this car just impresses me more and more. Can't wait to see what's in store from GM.
03-29-2010, 03:05 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by autoblog
As far as the never ending live rear end vs. independent suspension argument goes, we're saying the following: The 2011 Ford Mustang GT sports the very best solid rear axle in the world. We'd rather have the best solid axle than a mediocre multi-point rear. Hint, hint, Chevy. 'Nuff said.
"The very best solid rear axle in the world." Hahahahahaha
Perhaps they have never heard of a proper torque arm and panhard bar? Hmm, I always wondered why race cars run those (sarcasm). Or better yet, a Watts link. Instant credibility lost from that review, for me anyway. Again, he was probably just excited though. I guess I should blame it on the editor, not the writer. The editor has no excuse.
03-29-2010, 03:52 PM
#49
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The actual statement was even worse actually:
Umm, I haven't experienced the Camaro's IRS, but statements like this show you how jaded the reviewer is. Not because he is being purposefully bias, but because he is hyped up and excited after driving a great, spirited and capable car. As he should be. The same way writers were when the Camaro first came out.
"The very best solid rear axle in the world." Hahahahahaha
Perhaps they have never heard of a proper torque arm and panhard bar? Hmm, I always wondered why race cars run those (sarcasm). Or better yet, a Watts link. Instant credibility lost from that review, for me anyway. Again, he was probably just excited though. I guess I should blame it on the editor, not the writer. The editor has no excuse.
Umm, I haven't experienced the Camaro's IRS, but statements like this show you how jaded the reviewer is. Not because he is being purposefully bias, but because he is hyped up and excited after driving a great, spirited and capable car. As he should be. The same way writers were when the Camaro first came out.
"The very best solid rear axle in the world." Hahahahahaha
Perhaps they have never heard of a proper torque arm and panhard bar? Hmm, I always wondered why race cars run those (sarcasm). Or better yet, a Watts link. Instant credibility lost from that review, for me anyway. Again, he was probably just excited though. I guess I should blame it on the editor, not the writer. The editor has no excuse.
03-29-2010, 04:22 PM
#50
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Griggs (Mustang suspension tuner) sells a torque arm/panhard bar setup and a Watt's link setup for the current Mustang by the way. They also sell a kit for separate upper and lower a-arms upfront. As I was reading through that article I kept waiting for them to tell me the Mcpherson struts were the best front supension "in the world"!
Last edited by ZZtop; 03-29-2010 at 04:24 PM.
03-29-2010, 05:26 PM
#51
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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The actual statement was even worse actually:
Umm, I haven't experienced the Camaro's IRS, but statements like this show you how jaded the reviewer is. Not because he is being purposefully bias, but because he is hyped up and excited after driving a great, spirited and capable car. As he should be. The same way writers were when the Camaro first came out.
"The very best solid rear axle in the world." Hahahahahaha
Perhaps they have never heard of a proper torque arm and panhard bar? Hmm, I always wondered why race cars run those (sarcasm). Or better yet, a Watts link. Instant credibility lost from that review, for me anyway. Again, he was probably just excited though. I guess I should blame it on the editor, not the writer. The editor has no excuse.
Umm, I haven't experienced the Camaro's IRS, but statements like this show you how jaded the reviewer is. Not because he is being purposefully bias, but because he is hyped up and excited after driving a great, spirited and capable car. As he should be. The same way writers were when the Camaro first came out.
"The very best solid rear axle in the world." Hahahahahaha
Perhaps they have never heard of a proper torque arm and panhard bar? Hmm, I always wondered why race cars run those (sarcasm). Or better yet, a Watts link. Instant credibility lost from that review, for me anyway. Again, he was probably just excited though. I guess I should blame it on the editor, not the writer. The editor has no excuse.
Credit where it's due, well done Ford! I used to laugh loud when people mentioned the word Ford and powertrains together post the Nasser era but Ford have fought back wonderfully well with a couple of fantastic powertrains. Granted, we need to take a breath and find out what the production cars are capable of as the press cars could certainly be overdelivering...
Could we be a bit more realistic about some discussions here though?.... Not all Camaros in every drivers' hands are capable of 12s for the quarter, STOCK! It's only the best ones driven by the best drivers... so this point is baseless for the average guy wanting a nice performance coupe.
AND, not every person would want to modify their car or even contemplate changing a cam. So this discussion is pointless given the guy with the most money to spend will always have the quicker car.
Yes, I would still lust after the Camaro when it's all said and done... and I gave my reasons - it's the better engineered car, IMHO... but that's not taking anything away from Ford's achievements.
03-29-2010, 05:31 PM
#52
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So wait.....it seems to make more HP and TQ then Ford stated....putting it ahead of the SS and it weighs about 240lbs lighter.....? Yet its only 1 tenth of a sec and .1 of a mph faster in the 1/4 then an SS?
Seems like a typical ford to me. How many 400+, 500+. 600+ rwhp 03-04 cobra's actually run the number...almost like an american supra.
That being said, it is a nice car and I applaud ford for what they have done.
And lets not forget guys, this car has been around for a few years, time to give Ford the chance to learn, tweak, and refine it. Thats why its so good imho. Hopefully GM will do the same with the Camaro.
Seems like a typical ford to me. How many 400+, 500+. 600+ rwhp 03-04 cobra's actually run the number...almost like an american supra.
That being said, it is a nice car and I applaud ford for what they have done.
And lets not forget guys, this car has been around for a few years, time to give Ford the chance to learn, tweak, and refine it. Thats why its so good imho. Hopefully GM will do the same with the Camaro.
03-29-2010, 05:45 PM
#53
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Location: Payson, AZ USA
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Yeah, I agree, it actually was worse than I made out...
Credit where it's due, well done Ford! I used to laugh loud when people mentioned the word Ford and powertrains together post the Nasser era but Ford have fought back wonderfully well with a couple of fantastic powertrains. Granted, we need to take a breath and find out what the production cars are capable of as the press cars could certainly be overdelivering...
Could we be a bit more realistic about some discussions here though?.... Not all Camaros in every drivers' hands are capable of 12s for the quarter, STOCK! It's only the best ones driven by the best drivers... so this point is baseless for the average guy wanting a nice performance coupe.
AND, not every person would want to modify their car or even contemplate changing a cam. So this discussion is pointless given the guy with the most money to spend will always have the quicker car.
Yes, I would still lust after the Camaro when it's all said and done... and I gave my reasons - it's the better engineered car, IMHO... but that's not taking anything away from Ford's achievements.
Credit where it's due, well done Ford! I used to laugh loud when people mentioned the word Ford and powertrains together post the Nasser era but Ford have fought back wonderfully well with a couple of fantastic powertrains. Granted, we need to take a breath and find out what the production cars are capable of as the press cars could certainly be overdelivering...
Could we be a bit more realistic about some discussions here though?.... Not all Camaros in every drivers' hands are capable of 12s for the quarter, STOCK! It's only the best ones driven by the best drivers... so this point is baseless for the average guy wanting a nice performance coupe.
AND, not every person would want to modify their car or even contemplate changing a cam. So this discussion is pointless given the guy with the most money to spend will always have the quicker car.
Yes, I would still lust after the Camaro when it's all said and done... and I gave my reasons - it's the better engineered car, IMHO... but that's not taking anything away from Ford's achievements.
Great post, btw, and I agree with everything.
03-29-2010, 06:05 PM
#54
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 44
imo the motor trend stang was what it is. a lighter car with less power and less torque and tiny tires.
12.8 vs 12.9 and same mph. the power to weight ratio of that run was the same. (3.73's not withstanding) sounds to me like the preimum stang tested was heavier than reported.
base weight is 3605 for a base car. those fellows buying premiums are getting more electronics, heavier heated seats, and whatever other options it has added.
so its a 412hp/390tq 3732lbs car, against a 3860lb 426hp/420tq SS.
i mean i just calculated weight. but the race is what it is. a heavy car with 412hp against a heavier car with 426hp.
the 60' were the same. the et's were .1 different, and the mph were the same. the VCT probably helped midrange.
12.8 vs 12.9 and same mph. the power to weight ratio of that run was the same. (3.73's not withstanding) sounds to me like the preimum stang tested was heavier than reported.
base weight is 3605 for a base car. those fellows buying premiums are getting more electronics, heavier heated seats, and whatever other options it has added.
so its a 412hp/390tq 3732lbs car, against a 3860lb 426hp/420tq SS.
i mean i just calculated weight. but the race is what it is. a heavy car with 412hp against a heavier car with 426hp.
the 60' were the same. the et's were .1 different, and the mph were the same. the VCT probably helped midrange.
03-29-2010, 06:28 PM
#55
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I'm not biased although I may be a GM fan and a future owner (again)... But, I admit, it would be hard to say 'NO' to something that's a beaut machine, even if it has a blue oval on it!
I always get excited by new tech GMs and Fords.
03-29-2010, 07:38 PM
#56
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Location: GA
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Awesome, I think this might be my next car. I've always loved GM's but the did wrong in my book when they ended Camaro production in 2002. The new Camaro is nice but Ford seems to actually care about what thier enthuiasts want.
03-29-2010, 07:57 PM
#57
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Location: Richmond, TX
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Thank you for bringing that one up, so far I have seen on Mustang sites guys claiming that this 5.0 is making 465 hp and that Chevy will be shaking in its boots. So just a quick recap:
-65 more hp
-260 less lbs.
-Fords reinvention of the ICE
and it could only muster 2 tenths over the lower horsepower L99? I would love to give Ford credit but the Mustang nuthugging I have been reading for the last two weeks has worn on me. They did a great job but I thought the Camaro was going to be sucking dust? Maybe I had too high a hopes?
-65 more hp
-260 less lbs.
-Fords reinvention of the ICE
and it could only muster 2 tenths over the lower horsepower L99? I would love to give Ford credit but the Mustang nuthugging I have been reading for the last two weeks has worn on me. They did a great job but I thought the Camaro was going to be sucking dust? Maybe I had too high a hopes?
Gotta agree. I'm underwhelmed.
420-sumthin HP, 3600lbs. I was expecting mid 12s trapping in the teens.
03-29-2010, 09:07 PM
#58
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Compared to the Camaro, the Mustang is a few hundred pounds lighter, has similar power and thus should be a few tenths quicker in the quarter.
03-29-2010, 09:11 PM
#59
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I'm just happy to see the competition heat up. This can only mean the Camaro is getting better. I'm thinking that I'm picking up a GT to drive until Chevy fixes the interior. I would take the Stang interior in the Camaro any day of the week.
. Nice work Ford!