Ford's press release goes on and on about "grass roots road racing" and Boss 302.

Is that what you were referring to?

 

I think a lot of what you're saying is true. At the same time, understand that I never said the 2000 R or any Cobra had the fit, finish or luxury of a Corvette. The 03/04 Cobras are nice and are cheaper than the Vettes. They also offer better straight line performance than the regular Vettes and are nipping the heels of the Z06.

This new Mustang will not be like the 25 year old Fox bodies that everyone is familiar with. I think it will take some time for this to sink in with some people. If things go well, you're going to be seeing a new Mustang GT with the fit and finish of a Lincoln LS and GTO performance. All for about $25,000 and it runs on 87 octane. Not bad if you ask me. I don't think Ford Mustang buyers will be inundated though. The SEs will be spread out over the course of the next 6 years. We're not even getting the Cobra until June 2006 (as a 2007MY). Ford seems to be playing the game pretty good right now.

 

Since I have actually spoken to John Coletti on a few occasions on the phone, I think I can tell you you're WAAAAY off base here. He's actually a fantastic guy who happens to have the type of upper level support most anyone in the business would kill their mother for, and he knows it. He also knows his company makes the world's only affordable V8 sports car, and he makes a car that challenges Corvettes for obout $10,000 less... and doesn't need rebates or incentives to sell.

Colletti's SVT is essentially an independent operation within Ford (and now Ford's Performance Division) much the same way that Team Corvette is somewhat independent from Chevrolet. The big difference is that SVT get's to develop their own stuff while Corvette has to rely on GM Powertrain and GM's procurement (parts bin).

As an independent operation, SVT is making independent profits for Ford and their vehicles hold substantial portions of their value. Pick any year Cobra and compare it's resale price to a same year Camaro SS and you'll see what I mean. Lightnings are also very valuable when compared to other trucks, sports or not. Because SVT is extremly successful, not only has Chrysler attempted to copy them years later (with SRT) along with GM (via their performance division), but Ford gives SVT pretty much anything they want... and I do mean anything!

With any business there's going to be a miss. The SVT Contour didn't sell well, but then the entire Contour line was a failure. SVT Focus was overshadowed by the SRT-4 Neon. But the Cobra has been a roaring success as has been the Lightning. Even the limited edition Cobra R was a success (Gee, some dealer in the middle of nowhere had to sell one at a discount? He could have sold it to one of the other couple hundred SVT dealers that had no problem selling them).

As for the $35,000 discounted Cobra, no mystery there? The only people who doesn't know a new Mustang is coming (they start taking orders Monday, May 17th) are living under a rock in Tibet. Ford had to start discounting Mustangs since the start of the year, and just got around to Cobras the past few weeks. That in itself is telling.

I'm a former Ford guy who came to GM when Ford's customer relations forgot their job, Ford's policies started shafting people who brought cars with defects, and Ford cut their service times, effectively cutting the pay of it's mechanics doing warranty work. Also, Chevy had Cobra performance at a Z28 price, so here I am (up till '91 it was the opposite). If Ford or Chrysler (or Pontiac) makes a superior product over Chevrolet, I'll go there next.

Gotta give credit where credit's due, and there's plenty of people here who can, even though they are devout Camaro fans. You won't find a single person who doesn't wish we had an SVT for Chevrolet, and had a John Coletti in our corner. FWIW, trust him. If he says the next Cobra is going to be powered by NASA, it's a safe bet it will be.

BTW: Although Ford's customer service has taken some catastrophic hits the past 10 years, it's SVT service has been 5 star all the way. You can call SVT direct if you have a problem, & they have a history of bending over backwards to solve any issue you have. You don't have to wait forever to get your car back either. Try getting that type of specialized service with your "SS".

 

 

you mind sharing Coletti's ph# with us?!?! (it can be our little secret, i'm sure no one here would actually call and/or leave prank messages on his machine)


I cannot believe autoweek actually printed that photo...I thought the stang message boards universally decided that stang with a huge cowl was a poorly done chop

 

There's still some debate on that. Most people were looking at a resized digital photo that had pixel issues (which does look photochopped). However, the full sized picture doesn't show these pixel errors.

 

To contact Mr Coletti, assuming you don't want to go out and buy an SVT Mustang or Lightning (He's intrested in owner's opinions and will talk to them time permitting... again, SS buyers, try THAT with GM ), the next step is to get media credentials (log in at Ford's media site), then call Alan Hall at Ford media to make a schedule (time frame) when you are available.

John Colletti will give you a ring and will be glad to talk about anything you want (within reason).

An extremely lively and funny guy on the phone. Not what you'd expect after seeing how stiff he can be on TV, or how much of a braggard he seems in print.

 

Don't forget about a certain ex-racer and ex-car builder from Texas, first name Carroll, is back in the mix with the blue oval boys.

I feel pretty confident that we'll see some very special Mustangs coming out begining in 2005-6 MY.

As a diehard Chevy-man, I think that's cool. Even if you hate Fords and/or Mustangs, you should be in support of this for obvious reasons.

 

Unfortunately, every indication I've had from everyone I know and others is that the special Mustangs won't be out during the 2005 MY. Ford is going to be too busy trying to get 170,000+ V6 and GTs out the door to try and launch a SE. Even people with access to certain ordering programs at Ford dealerships only see the V6 and GT listed. Personally I'd love for Ford to prove me wrong Right now it looks like we might get a Mach 1 or "Mach 1 like" Mustang 6 or so months before the Cobra comes out in June 2006 (2007MY).

 

You're right, that does sound more realistic....

Just think... by sometime in 2007, enthusiasts will have a slew of choices from Ford and GM.

As Martha would say, "That's a good thing."

 

Well that was all good info, but like I said, Money talks and BS walks. Colleti has said a lot in the past, and has come up short. And I do belive that GM has a performance division now run by Mark Reues(I forgot how to spell his last name).
I dont care if they make the only affordable V8 coupe, the rest of the car company is failing. No new product on top of aging product.
I dont see the possiblity of 500+hp Mustangs from the factory. The 5.0 Cammer would be uber expensive, and you would seriously looking at a 60k Mustang. Im sure they would sell some, but who wants a 60k Mustang?
And saying you would pick a Ford GT over any Ferrari is just your bias showing. If there was a super-vette in that same range, I would just get a Ferrari.
They can keep making these super cars, but it doesnt do away with the fact that Ford as a car company is slipping. Sales arent keeping up with Fords spending lifestyle. The F150 has been holding there head above water for so damn long. We will see what happens when SVT starts back up next year. I dont see a Cobra with more then 450hp hitting the street. We can all dream, but with the way Ford is right now, Making a 500hp Cobra will have this car priced in a range to where most people will look elsewhere, not to mention getting beat down by the Z06 and Viper like they did in 01.
I dont care if Shelby is there either. GM is doing just fine in the performance group. GM has more performance cars then Ford does.

 

Yup. Even though mine's a failure (a very fun to drive failure though), they still treat me like a god

SVT has probably gotten a customer for life here. It's going to be a difficult decision deciding between an '03/04 Cobra rag or an LS1 rag as soon as my insurance rates drop.

 

Al, you sound like alot of people here did back when I 1st mentioned that the soon to be released Cobra was pushing over 390 horses at the rear wheels! But as you indicated, we'll know soon enough.

As for Ford's lavish lifestyle, that ended 3 years ago when Ford canned Jac Nasser. Ford through the 90s went on a wild spending spree, and astoundingly, they actually made enough profits to make GM look like a 3rd rate company (less than 1/3 the dealers, 1/3 to 1/2 of the sales, yet many times the annual profits of GM!).

As for the Ford GT and the Corvette, apples & oranges. Corvette is a blue collar mid life machine. Most anyone on this board could buy one, used or new, if we wanted one. Ford GT is a collector's piece and an image builder. While Corvette has to make a profit to continue, the GT is simply made to pay for itself over a short 2 or 3 year run, then it's replace with a new low volume image/collector car.

The F150 has been doing very well, and has a interior that's winning raves and helping the truck set sales records. No problem there, since the shere volume of it's sales more than make up for the spare little expense mentality behind it.

Ford right now has recovered from some really catastrophic (and incredibly stupid and idiotic) mistakes. The cost cutter mentality of the late '90s caught up with them, and bit them in the pocket book. Fortunately is was a humoungous pocketbook, because it would have sunk any other company (including 1999-era GM!).

Ford's new models are painfully cheap to bring to market. There's 3 cars and 2 SUVs that's coming off a Mazda platform designed to be profitable by just being used by Mazda. There's 2 cars and an SUV coming off a Volvo chassis, again initially made for profitability being used by just Volvo. The new Mustang chassis is cheap to produce, and will likely be the basis for a new line of RWD cars. The Panther which is based on a chassis that began development at the end of the Ford administration, is perhaps the biggest money making machine on 4 wheels that isn't a truck.

Unlike GM (which is putting money towards all new cars with all new components) it's going to take a pretty catastrophic hit to knock Ford off balence in the future.

All of their current & futrure products (save the F series which sells like ice water in hell) all have a low payback rate, and should be extremely profitable after the 1st year or so on the market.

 

Examples? I and a few others here are very curious.

Correct.

New Five hundred large sedan, futura mid-sized sedan, freestyle cross-over, Freestar minivan, F-150, GT, and mustang for 04/05. Then there's the expedition/explorer that has been on market for only year or so. Later this year, we'll be seeing a freshened up Escape with available Hybrid engine. There's the rumored Shelby Cobra. ALL this from the Ford brand alone. Yeaaahhh, "no new products". A little helpful advice bro, peep out of that little rock once in a while. No offense, but Ford's got lots of new products. Not easy to miss.

WHo? Same people that would spend 60, 75, and even 90k (yes i saw one sold for 90k) on a 2000 Cobra R. You're forgetting that Cobra's only make up 5% of mustang sales at most. Cobra R' made up only 0.001% of mustang sales in 2000. This is why they can make a 60,000 dollar limited edition Cobra R, sell 300 or so with ease, and not hurt their bottom line. Now if they priced the entire mustang lineup at 60k, then they'd be having some serious troubles. But a limited edition would not hurt them the least bit.

You don't have to be biased to pick a GT over a 360. Would i be accused of being GM biased for picking a CTS-V over an M3? A Cadillac over a Bimmer? Hardly, i LOVE BMW and M's, but the CTS-V would get my business. Same with GT over 360. I can see a supperior performance machine when i spot one. Some of us purchase cars, not badges or nameplates.

Who says a 500hp Cobra has to cost 60,000? You keep throwing this amount around like you're certain. At most, i'd say 40-45k. Ford is not going to nearly double the cars price over a model year (from 35k to 60k). A 450hp supercharged 5.4 costs no more than a 500hp one. Just turn the boost up a notch. This engine will be in the next Lightning (priced under 45,000), why couldn't it be in a Cobra costing less than 45,000?

That and you keep on saying "most people will look elsewhere". This is a limited production. This is NOT for everyone, or the general masses. Ford doesn't have to sell them by the hundred thousands. It has niche (sp??).

Why do i get the feeling that you are comparing GM as a corporation to Ford as a brand? . No offense, but this flawed logic pretty much sums up your sentiment.

 

Please explain

Please read what I said again. I would take the Enzo, F40 or F50 over the GT. If GM produced a Corvette that had the heritage and looks of the GT, I would pick it over most Ferraris too.

Depends on which mag you read. As I recall it was the 2000 models they compared. On a performance basis the Cobra R actually won. Some magazines rated the creature comforts as well putting the Z06 and Viper on a higher level, thus "winning" the camparo.

Which ones? Surely you're not talking about the Impala SS, Aveo SS and Cobalt SS Actually, I like the Cobalt SS. It looks good in person.