http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...4/article.html

"Not all automakers are ready to jump on the ethanol bandwagon. E85 is one of many alternative fuels that Toyota is considering, but currently the company has no plans to produce flexible fuel vehicles for sale in the U.S. Honda does not offer any E85 vehicles in the U.S. either, but it supports blends of E10 in gasoline. "We are concerned about reliance on significantly higher levels of ethanol until we develop a more efficient production process relying on a product other than corn," said Ed Cohen, American Honda's vice president of government and industry relations."

Could be a mistake for Toyota/Honda? I see E85 DoD Hybrids being the future... And even if they can bring it out on a whim, the American public will have the perception that GM/Ford etc... are GREEN. Just like they have the perception NOW that Toyota/Honda are Green.


Anyhow, the cool part about E85 is that it can and will more then likely increase HP up to 5% maybe more on E85 SPECIFIC vehicles that run higher compression rations. Only downside you couldn't run a 12:1 on regular gas...

If they can work the technology and get 1 Gallon of E85 to equal 85% of the cost of 1 Gallon of gas... Then I see E85 taking off, BIGTIME...

My 400hp Camaro just magically became 420hp... I LIKE!

 

What has happened in the past is when Big Oil (keep in mind I do vote Republican) senses a threat to its monopoly in the energy markets, it cuts prices to make alternative fuels economically unviable.

With record profits last year, they certainly could stand to cut prices enough to kill the momentum behind ethanol. I hope that doesn't happen because we really need to start cultivating alternatives.

Just once I'd like to see big oil put their teeth into ethanol. Instead of trying to kill off the competition, why not expand your own reach and become Ethanol leaders?

Exxon could go buy up a bunch of ethanol infrastructure and lead the way and get all kinds of good press and investment because of it.

 

Well if the Government really does enact legislation on this I wouldn't be suprised at all if some of the Big Oil Companies invest in Ethanol. It only makes sense. They can't be Big Oil companies forever - so they should look at these alternative technologies as a way to pave a future for the company 10, 25, 50 years ahead.

 

and then up the price.

 

Shell has invested in E85.

 

Agreed, but that would require farsightedness on the part of the governing boards of these oil companies.

That's the downfall of being publicly traded. Companies only look 2 yrs down the road...to short term returns, because that's what keeps shareholders happy and CEO's in a job. Very hard to take a public company and sell a legit 20 year strategy.

 

I live right outside of St. Louis, and my backyard backs up to a corn field

 

This is where I'm confused, everything I've read says that Ethanol has far less BTU's than Gasoline and because of this, you get less power with it and thats why you have to burn more to keep the same power which results in less MPG. But then you're saying that since the Octane is high, we can bump compression ratios up and we make more power than gasoline?

*Edit*
Some quick research shows 1 gal of 91 octane Gasoline has 111,500 BTU while 1 gal of E85 has only 81,000 BTU. Can you really overcome this with compression?

 

Remember that the internal combustion engine is only about 20%-25% efficient when using gasoline. The total amount of BTU probably isn't that important in this case. Ethanol also burns cooler than gasoline. With increased compression, it may be possible to get better efficiency out of ethanol than gasoline, thus producing more power. I'm not sure, but someone else might have more information.

As for the comment about cornfields in the Midwest, haven't been here before, having you? It's nothing but corn fields here. But what we need is a way to make ethanol cheaply and easily out of more than just corn and a way to get it out to everyone like we currently can gas.

 

GM needs to advertise the heck out of this. Being the first to the punch with "green" cars would be a first for GM. A first for being first to anything, and then being first to really accept this new fuel outright.

 

Well, I'm no chemist, but back in the days of ChemFlunk 101 there has to be so much fuel to mix with so much oxygen to get a complete burn. I'm guessing that you have to use more E85 for the same amount of Air (Cylinder volume is fixed). Gasoline is like 14:1 ideal, so maybe E85 is like 12:1 ideal stochiometric???

After you do this I'm guessing you might actually have more Ethanol even at the lower BTU's to equal a little more power, or even if it's the same you'll have a higher octane rating so the engine can run a little more aggressive timing curve = more HP.

Also explains the less fuel mileage because in each combustion cycle the injectors will inject more fuel to complete the reaction then they have to with Gasoline.

Maybe somebody with a little more knowledge of this can step in and explain better then my ramblings from my freshman year in college, lol.

 

You would need less ethanol molecules per air because ethanol has oxygen within it, unlike gasoline.

Ethanol does have less BTU per gallon than gasoline, which in turn has less BTU per gallon than diesel. The power output of the motor is a lot more complicated than what the BTU of the fuel is. The octane rating could allow more timing and compression than with standard pump gas, for example That is why you can possibly get a performance bump in E85 over normal gasolines. But octane isn't everything. There are a lot of burn characteristics that are only partially related to octane that are quite possibly different between ethanol and gas.

 

Here in Ohio, we have corn fields as far as the eye can see, all flat ground.
And regardless if making the E85 isn't that efficient yet to make, we NEED to cut our dependency on foreign oil, period.
As said China will be developing a huge thirst soon, and I don't want to pay $5/gallon to compete for shipments.
I've used an alcohol blend here before, in StarFire stations, not sure on the mixture or what type of alcohol, but my car ran BETTER..smoother, and had a slight gain in power.
And I'd LOVE to see the Big Oil Corp's get some serious competition, if it's possible, their the only companies allowed a somewhat monopoly, and are so huge, they practically draw up Policy and have Congress stamp it.
Not to mention, how much technology is being bought up and stagnated by them......Just look how far computers hav came in such a short time..........

 

http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php

I have two stations within 20 miles of my home ...Now if I only had a compliant vehicle....

 

We have a pretty large ethenol refinery here in South Bend . When the wind is blowing just right , the smell this refinery gives off is GROSS . Everywhere smells like yeast , ick . Over the years it has improved significantly though . Back when they first built it years ago it was gagging almost .