More E85...
More E85...
Corny Issue
Ethanol gaining momentum but needs more pumps
By RICHARD TRUETT | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
AutoWeek | Published 02/21/06, 2:58 pm et
President Bush wants it. Congress passed a law calling for more of it. Automakers are promoting it.
Now drivers need a place to get it.
Of the nation's 168,987 gasoline stations, only 608 offer ethanol pumps for flexible-fuel vehicles.
But momentum is building for E85 -- the blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline -- as a way to reduce the nation's reliance on imported oil and a way to reduce tailpipe emissions.
E85-capable flexible-fuel vehicles, or FFVs, that run on either gasoline or an ethanol mix have been available since the mid-1990s. Automakers already have produced about 5 million FFVs in the United States. But because there are so few E85 pumps, not many vehicles actually run on the home-grown fuel.
Opinions differ over how fast the ethanol infrastructure can expand.
The number of filling stations selling E85 will increase slowly, and most will be in the Midwest, says John Hartmann, a petroleum equipment consultant in McHenry, Ill. Hartmann says he believes E85 eventually will become a mainstream fuel.
"It takes 15 years for one fuel to take the place of another fuel. That was the case with unleaded (gasoline)," he says.
This month, both General Motors and Ford Motor Co. launched initiatives that will increase the number of E85 pumps in the Midwest.
Ford will help fund the installation of E85 pumps in Illinois and Missouri, and GM will try to raise consumer awareness of E85 through marketing and advertising.
"If you look right now, there's a lot of talk about flexible-fuel vehicles. You are seeing ads for them on TV," says Al Mannato, fuel issues manager for the American Petroleum Institute. "Well, the reality is, there are millions of these vehicles out there, but there is no demand for this product."
The ethanol used to make E85 comes mostly from corn. One bushel of corn produces 2.8 gallons of ethanol. The corn is ground into a powder, which is treated with water, enzymes and ammonia. It is heated and stirred, then cooled before yeast is added. That starts the process of converting sugars in the "mash" into alcohol. There are a few more steps before the ethanol is ready to be mixed with gasoline.
The bottom line: Making E85 is an energy-intensive process. Researchers are divided over whether ethanol is an energy loser. It can be if the corn has to be shipped long distances to an ethanol plant. Much of the cost-effectiveness of producing ethanol depends on where the refinery is. In Brazil, many of the refineries are located where sugar cane -- another source for ethanol -- is grown, reducing transportation costs.
The ethanol is trucked in pure form to petroleum terminals, where it is mixed with gasoline and then delivered to the 608 filling stations.
Brazil, which is expected to wean itself from oil imports this year, has been burning ethanol made from sugar cane since the first fuel crisis of the 1970s. Prices below $20 per barrel of oil for many years forced the Brazilian government to subsidize ethanol production.
But gains in technology brought down the cost of ethanol production. Now Brazil earns export dollars selling the fuel to other countries.
Of Brazil's 16.5 million vehicles, more than 4.3 million run on ethanol. About 75 percent of all vehicles sold there in 2006 will be FFVs.
In the United States, 98 plants were capable of producing about 4 billion gallons of ethanol a year as of November, according to the Renewable Fuels Association.
Four billion gallons sounds like a lot, but it's a small drop in the nation's gas tank. Americans use roughly 140 billion gallons of gasoline annually.
Under the schedule set out in the Energy Policy Act, which was signed by President Bush on Aug. 5, the government projects ethanol production will rise to 7.5 billion gallons a year by 2012. Several ethanol producers, such as Archer Daniels Midland Co. and Cargill Inc., are boosting production. The administration hopes tax credits for ethanol producers and for fuel station operators who install ethanol pumps will create incentives to make the fuel more available.
The cost to add an E85 pump to a station could range from a few dollars to change the signs on the pump to as much as $240,000 if a new tank needs to be installed along with a new pump, according to Shell Oil Co.
VeraSun Energy of Brookings, S.D., is the nation's second-largest producer of ethanol and has partnered with GM and Ford to expand the availability of E85.
"We believe we will see more pumps put outside the Midwest in the very near future," said Bill Honnef, VeraSun's vice president of sales and marketing. "When the president says E85 is one avenue that can reduce oil imports, it certainly gets people's attention."
As of December, E85 was available in 36 states, with a majority of the fuel pumps concentrated in Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska and the Dakotas.
GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler and Nissan offer flexible-fuel vehicles that can run on either E85 or gasoline. Ford has been building FFVs since 1993 and has made more than 1.6 million. GM plans to put about 400,000 FFVs on the road in 2006.
Automakers have a strong motivation for offering FFVs. They can claim Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE, credits of up to 1.2 mpg. Those credits help them avoid fines for selling vehicles with poor fuel economy.
Enabling a vehicle to burn E85 isn't an expensive undertaking, says Chris Meagher, GM assistant chief engineer of small-block engines.
All that is needed are new higher-capacity fuel injectors, fuel lines made of stainless steel instead of aluminum and new computer software that keeps the engine running properly on the higher-octane fuel.
E85 is rated at 105 to 113 octane, compared with 87 for regular gasoline. Depending on the vehicle, a different fuel tank might be needed.
E85's higher octane can add horsepower, Meagher says. But because the energy contained in E85 is lower than that of gasoline, fuel economy drops between 5 and 15 percent.
The pump price for E85 varies from state to state because of taxes, subsidies and other factors.
Ethanol gaining momentum but needs more pumps
By RICHARD TRUETT | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
AutoWeek | Published 02/21/06, 2:58 pm et
President Bush wants it. Congress passed a law calling for more of it. Automakers are promoting it.
Now drivers need a place to get it.
Of the nation's 168,987 gasoline stations, only 608 offer ethanol pumps for flexible-fuel vehicles.
But momentum is building for E85 -- the blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline -- as a way to reduce the nation's reliance on imported oil and a way to reduce tailpipe emissions.
E85-capable flexible-fuel vehicles, or FFVs, that run on either gasoline or an ethanol mix have been available since the mid-1990s. Automakers already have produced about 5 million FFVs in the United States. But because there are so few E85 pumps, not many vehicles actually run on the home-grown fuel.
Opinions differ over how fast the ethanol infrastructure can expand.
The number of filling stations selling E85 will increase slowly, and most will be in the Midwest, says John Hartmann, a petroleum equipment consultant in McHenry, Ill. Hartmann says he believes E85 eventually will become a mainstream fuel.
"It takes 15 years for one fuel to take the place of another fuel. That was the case with unleaded (gasoline)," he says.
This month, both General Motors and Ford Motor Co. launched initiatives that will increase the number of E85 pumps in the Midwest.
Ford will help fund the installation of E85 pumps in Illinois and Missouri, and GM will try to raise consumer awareness of E85 through marketing and advertising.
"If you look right now, there's a lot of talk about flexible-fuel vehicles. You are seeing ads for them on TV," says Al Mannato, fuel issues manager for the American Petroleum Institute. "Well, the reality is, there are millions of these vehicles out there, but there is no demand for this product."
The ethanol used to make E85 comes mostly from corn. One bushel of corn produces 2.8 gallons of ethanol. The corn is ground into a powder, which is treated with water, enzymes and ammonia. It is heated and stirred, then cooled before yeast is added. That starts the process of converting sugars in the "mash" into alcohol. There are a few more steps before the ethanol is ready to be mixed with gasoline.
The bottom line: Making E85 is an energy-intensive process. Researchers are divided over whether ethanol is an energy loser. It can be if the corn has to be shipped long distances to an ethanol plant. Much of the cost-effectiveness of producing ethanol depends on where the refinery is. In Brazil, many of the refineries are located where sugar cane -- another source for ethanol -- is grown, reducing transportation costs.
The ethanol is trucked in pure form to petroleum terminals, where it is mixed with gasoline and then delivered to the 608 filling stations.
Brazil, which is expected to wean itself from oil imports this year, has been burning ethanol made from sugar cane since the first fuel crisis of the 1970s. Prices below $20 per barrel of oil for many years forced the Brazilian government to subsidize ethanol production.
But gains in technology brought down the cost of ethanol production. Now Brazil earns export dollars selling the fuel to other countries.
Of Brazil's 16.5 million vehicles, more than 4.3 million run on ethanol. About 75 percent of all vehicles sold there in 2006 will be FFVs.
In the United States, 98 plants were capable of producing about 4 billion gallons of ethanol a year as of November, according to the Renewable Fuels Association.
Four billion gallons sounds like a lot, but it's a small drop in the nation's gas tank. Americans use roughly 140 billion gallons of gasoline annually.
Under the schedule set out in the Energy Policy Act, which was signed by President Bush on Aug. 5, the government projects ethanol production will rise to 7.5 billion gallons a year by 2012. Several ethanol producers, such as Archer Daniels Midland Co. and Cargill Inc., are boosting production. The administration hopes tax credits for ethanol producers and for fuel station operators who install ethanol pumps will create incentives to make the fuel more available.
The cost to add an E85 pump to a station could range from a few dollars to change the signs on the pump to as much as $240,000 if a new tank needs to be installed along with a new pump, according to Shell Oil Co.
VeraSun Energy of Brookings, S.D., is the nation's second-largest producer of ethanol and has partnered with GM and Ford to expand the availability of E85.
"We believe we will see more pumps put outside the Midwest in the very near future," said Bill Honnef, VeraSun's vice president of sales and marketing. "When the president says E85 is one avenue that can reduce oil imports, it certainly gets people's attention."
As of December, E85 was available in 36 states, with a majority of the fuel pumps concentrated in Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska and the Dakotas.
GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler and Nissan offer flexible-fuel vehicles that can run on either E85 or gasoline. Ford has been building FFVs since 1993 and has made more than 1.6 million. GM plans to put about 400,000 FFVs on the road in 2006.
Automakers have a strong motivation for offering FFVs. They can claim Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE, credits of up to 1.2 mpg. Those credits help them avoid fines for selling vehicles with poor fuel economy.
Enabling a vehicle to burn E85 isn't an expensive undertaking, says Chris Meagher, GM assistant chief engineer of small-block engines.
All that is needed are new higher-capacity fuel injectors, fuel lines made of stainless steel instead of aluminum and new computer software that keeps the engine running properly on the higher-octane fuel.
E85 is rated at 105 to 113 octane, compared with 87 for regular gasoline. Depending on the vehicle, a different fuel tank might be needed.
E85's higher octane can add horsepower, Meagher says. But because the energy contained in E85 is lower than that of gasoline, fuel economy drops between 5 and 15 percent.
The pump price for E85 varies from state to state because of taxes, subsidies and other factors.
Re: More E85...
Does CAFE even apply to these vehicles? It doesn't seem to make sense as these are supposed to be some of the greenest vehicles out there right? If you're only using 15% gas, you can't be releasing that much harmful stuff out there.
Pretty exciting though. I wouldn't mind to start seeing some around my part of the Midwest. Then all I need is a car that will run on it.
Once we start cloning corn, we're all set.
Pretty exciting though. I wouldn't mind to start seeing some around my part of the Midwest. Then all I need is a car that will run on it.

Once we start cloning corn, we're all set.
Re: More E85...
You know, if anything can come out of this I could see this "Competition" forcing the Oil Companies to get on the Ball with their gas prices. I have no doubt they could drop the prices if the just tried harder. They might have too. I see E85 only as a good thing right now.
Re: More E85...
If its one thing the midwest has, it's a lot of land to grow corn (go Ohio, woo). I just hope the soil can take the beating year after year and that we can get better at extracting energy.
Re: More E85...
Originally Posted by Chuck!
If its one thing the midwest has, it's a lot of land to grow corn (go Ohio, woo). I just hope the soil can take the beating year after year and that we can get better at extracting energy.
No-Till year after year and you have to rely heavily on outside Fertilizers, Lime, etc....
Re: More E85...
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
It could take the beating if the Farmers would get away from the current practice of No-Till and go back to Crop Rotations. Corn, Beans, Pasture... Repeat
No-Till year after year and you have to rely heavily on outside Fertilizers, Lime, etc....
No-Till year after year and you have to rely heavily on outside Fertilizers, Lime, etc....
Re: More E85...
I don't know about Ethanol from Soybeans, but definitely Soy Oil ~ Biodiesel. Their working on technologies to extract ethanol from Grass so...
Corn - Ethanol
Beans - Biodiesel
Pasture (Grass) - Ethanol
Would be better for the ground, and cheaper due to less additives that have to be put back in from an external source.
Corn - Ethanol
Beans - Biodiesel
Pasture (Grass) - Ethanol
Would be better for the ground, and cheaper due to less additives that have to be put back in from an external source.
Re: More E85...
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
I don't know about Ethanol from Soybeans, but definitely Soy Oil ~ Biodiesel. Their working on technologies to extract ethanol from Grass so...
Corn - Ethanol
Beans - Biodiesel
Pasture (Grass) - Ethanol
Would be better for the ground, and cheaper due to less additives that have to be put back in from an external source.
Corn - Ethanol
Beans - Biodiesel
Pasture (Grass) - Ethanol
Would be better for the ground, and cheaper due to less additives that have to be put back in from an external source.
Re: More E85...
Something doesn't seem right with E85. If it was really as good a fuel as I've been reading, then the entire Midwest should be covered in corn fields by now. After all - it helps domestic farmers, weans us off oil imports, makes more power, AND pollutes less! I am no expert, but I have a bad feeling that ethanol is just not an energy efficient fuel source (as the article hinted). I really hope that its as good as the hype, but IMO GM and Ford should not be hyping E85 so much before there is concrete research about its fesability as a fuel source.
Re: More E85...
Originally Posted by maksik7
Something doesn't seem right with E85. If it was really as good a fuel as I've been reading, then the entire Midwest should be covered in corn fields by now. After all - it helps domestic farmers, weans us off oil imports, makes more power, AND pollutes less! I am no expert, but I have a bad feeling that ethanol is just not an energy efficient fuel source (as the article hinted). I really hope that its as good as the hype, but IMO GM and Ford should not be hyping E85 so much before there is concrete research about its fesability as a fuel source.
Re: More E85...
Originally Posted by maksik7
Something doesn't seem right with E85. If it was really as good a fuel as I've been reading, then the entire Midwest should be covered in corn fields by now. After all - it helps domestic farmers, weans us off oil imports, makes more power, AND pollutes less! I am no expert, but I have a bad feeling that ethanol is just not an energy efficient fuel source (as the article hinted). I really hope that its as good as the hype, but IMO GM and Ford should not be hyping E85 so much before there is concrete research about its fesability as a fuel source.

We have excess and excess stockpiles of corn (not beans as much) just sitting around waiting to be used. The reason E85 hasn't taken off is basically 2 reasons:
1) No real legislation from Govt yet. Due to the low cost of Gas (relatively) they are going to need help getting over the hump per say to compete against oil.
2) It's just not quite there as far as cost competitiveness with Petro. BUT like said above the technology is improving faster and faster, and oil is getting more and more expensive. So while this year or next year it will probably not take off huge, but in the next 10 years I expect to see alot more E85 stations popping up.
And Kudos for GM, etc... for making these vehicles now. 10 years from now these will be the Used car lot vehicles and if Gas is 5.00/gallon, and E85 is 2.25/gallon, Imports will have wished they jumped on the bandwagon too. (And they might be already, it doesn't really take that much modification for E85)


