A minor danger....
Originally posted by PacerX
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
try comparing a RWD BMW 3-series with a Impala, both are closer in size and weight. give both cars the same tires too.
a better example would be the current FWD Intrepid vs. the 2004 RWD Intrepid when it comes out. Hopfully an auto mag. will do this story.
WERM, so far in Albany NY, I have only counted 7 days that I would call NO CAMARO DAYS, as long as there is 1" of snow or less the Camaro will do fine.
Few things need to be considered here regarding FWD vs RWD in the snow:
1) Most all RWD cars available nowadays are powerful cars with very wide tires. The wrong combination for snow! Put 245 width performance tires on your FWD Northstar powered STS and disconnect the traction control, then see what happens!!
2) The most important thing in the snow is steering. If the front end starts sliding on a curve in your RWD car, you still have some steering ability using your accelerator. In FWD, your steering ability is gone.
3) The only reason people feel RWD is dangerous in snow today is because it's been fed to consumers from the auto industry for over 20 years. It's far easier as far as packaging (and much cheaper!) to design a engine/drivetrain component that can be snapped into various chassis like those model track cars we had as a kid. For years, people learned to drive in the snow with no problem, put on a set of $50 snow tires, adjust your techniques, & go. Now it's a lost art for some.
Germany get's as much or even more snow as the northeast, yet the at the moment, it seems they make most of the world's RWD cars!!
1) Most all RWD cars available nowadays are powerful cars with very wide tires. The wrong combination for snow! Put 245 width performance tires on your FWD Northstar powered STS and disconnect the traction control, then see what happens!!
2) The most important thing in the snow is steering. If the front end starts sliding on a curve in your RWD car, you still have some steering ability using your accelerator. In FWD, your steering ability is gone.
3) The only reason people feel RWD is dangerous in snow today is because it's been fed to consumers from the auto industry for over 20 years. It's far easier as far as packaging (and much cheaper!) to design a engine/drivetrain component that can be snapped into various chassis like those model track cars we had as a kid. For years, people learned to drive in the snow with no problem, put on a set of $50 snow tires, adjust your techniques, & go. Now it's a lost art for some.
Germany get's as much or even more snow as the northeast, yet the at the moment, it seems they make most of the world's RWD cars!!
Originally posted by guionM
Few things need to be considered here regarding FWD vs RWD in the snow:
1) Most all RWD cars available nowadays are powerful cars with very wide tires. The wrong combination for snow! Put 245 width performance tires on your FWD Northstar powered STS and disconnect the traction control, then see what happens!!
2) The most important thing in the snow is steering. If the front end starts sliding on a curve in your RWD car, you still have some steering ability using your accelerator. In FWD, your steering ability is gone.
3) The only reason people feel RWD is dangerous in snow today is because it's been fed to consumers from the auto industry for over 20 years. It's far easier as far as packaging (and much cheaper!) to design a engine/drivetrain component that can be snapped into various chassis like those model track cars we had as a kid. For years, people learned to drive in the snow with no problem, put on a set of $50 snow tires, adjust your techniques, & go. Now it's a lost art for some.
Germany get's as much or even more snow as the northeast, yet the at the moment, it seems they make most of the world's RWD cars!!
Few things need to be considered here regarding FWD vs RWD in the snow:
1) Most all RWD cars available nowadays are powerful cars with very wide tires. The wrong combination for snow! Put 245 width performance tires on your FWD Northstar powered STS and disconnect the traction control, then see what happens!!
2) The most important thing in the snow is steering. If the front end starts sliding on a curve in your RWD car, you still have some steering ability using your accelerator. In FWD, your steering ability is gone.
3) The only reason people feel RWD is dangerous in snow today is because it's been fed to consumers from the auto industry for over 20 years. It's far easier as far as packaging (and much cheaper!) to design a engine/drivetrain component that can be snapped into various chassis like those model track cars we had as a kid. For years, people learned to drive in the snow with no problem, put on a set of $50 snow tires, adjust your techniques, & go. Now it's a lost art for some.
Germany get's as much or even more snow as the northeast, yet the at the moment, it seems they make most of the world's RWD cars!!
AWD yes. FWD? Don't believe the hype!
Originally posted by Z28x
WERM, so far in Albany NY, I have only counted 7 days that I would call NO CAMARO DAYS, as long as there is 1" of snow or less the Camaro will do fine.
WERM, so far in Albany NY, I have only counted 7 days that I would call NO CAMARO DAYS, as long as there is 1" of snow or less the Camaro will do fine.
When given the choice, I will always pick RWD over FWD for my own personal transportation. I owned a Camaro as my only car in MI for a horrendous winter and I'm still not changing. Call me stubborn.
Originally posted by PacerX
Look enthusiasts...
I appreciate RWD as much as the next guy, but any knucklehead who says that RWD is better than FWD in snow needs to step away from the crack pipe.
It has NOTHING to do with driver skill, and has everything to do with the weight of the powertrain being directly over the drive wheels.
Add to that the fact that FWD is more efficient for packaging and universally results in more interior space for a given weight/cost and you have a solid case for keeping FWD around.
Do FWD cars plow? Yes. Do FWD cars suffer from lower acceleration times? Yes. Are they handicapped with torque steer? Yes.
Are they better on snow? YES. Are they more fuel efficient? YES. Are they more efficient for interior space? YES.
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
Saying there is no use for FWD anymore, or that RWD is just as good or better in snow is STUPID. GM better not make that bet either.
Look enthusiasts...
I appreciate RWD as much as the next guy, but any knucklehead who says that RWD is better than FWD in snow needs to step away from the crack pipe.
It has NOTHING to do with driver skill, and has everything to do with the weight of the powertrain being directly over the drive wheels.
Add to that the fact that FWD is more efficient for packaging and universally results in more interior space for a given weight/cost and you have a solid case for keeping FWD around.
Do FWD cars plow? Yes. Do FWD cars suffer from lower acceleration times? Yes. Are they handicapped with torque steer? Yes.
Are they better on snow? YES. Are they more fuel efficient? YES. Are they more efficient for interior space? YES.
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
Saying there is no use for FWD anymore, or that RWD is just as good or better in snow is STUPID. GM better not make that bet either.
I like and agree with most everything you post, but I disagree with some of this post.
I will stick with my statement that RWD is better than FWD, even in the snow. I had a '96 Sonoma, 2WD, short bed, 4 cyl, stick. I never put weight in the bed. It was always empty. That truck NEVER got stuck. And here in Central New York, we get some of the nation's worst winter weather. We've already had 145 inches of snow this year.
And in my job (I work for a supplier to the the car manufacturers), I do alot of test driving. I consistently dislike the way FWD cars handle in the snow. You CANNOT use the throttle to steer the car. It's so unnatural feeling. If you use the e-brake to induce oversteer, you cannot feather it out using the throttle. There really isn't even any sense in trying to steer the car to hold the fishtail. It doesn't do anything.
I'll stick to the notion that if you put good snows on a RWD vehicle and some weight, the RWD car will be just as good as a FWD vehicle for the AVERAGE driver and far superior for the skilled driver.
I'll agree with you that it's better for packaging and it's probably cheaper because engine/trannys can be installed as a "module".
But more fuel efficient? Our F-bodies get 19/28 for mileage. Show me a FWD vehicle with a 346 CID V-8 that gets better mileage. Show me any FWD V-8 that gets better mileage. If it does, it's probably because of less displacement or less agressive fuel/ignition maps and/or cams.
So I'll stick with RWD being better than FWD.
And no, I'm not a crack smoker.
Terrain has as much to do with winter driving as snow accumulation.. my point is that 2 or 3 inches in the mountains is going to be just as treacherous (if not more) as a foot of snow in North Dakota.
Having said that, I'm in the heart of the Appalachians here in WNC, where the terrain goes from a 2000ft elevation to 6000ft before you know what hits you, and my RWD thirdgens have never gotten me stuck in any weather. I've driven right by SUV's stuck in the ditch with their blinkers on and white handkerchiefs on the door more times than I'd like to remember..
HuJass and guionM took the words right out of my mouth in this thread
Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead here, but how about the best of both worlds? I'd love to see a car which in "regular mode" is an AWD car with traction control, and which can be manually switched by the driver to RWD or FWD, at will, and on the fly. Does anything like that exist yet?
gt
Having said that, I'm in the heart of the Appalachians here in WNC, where the terrain goes from a 2000ft elevation to 6000ft before you know what hits you, and my RWD thirdgens have never gotten me stuck in any weather. I've driven right by SUV's stuck in the ditch with their blinkers on and white handkerchiefs on the door more times than I'd like to remember..
HuJass and guionM took the words right out of my mouth in this thread

Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead here, but how about the best of both worlds? I'd love to see a car which in "regular mode" is an AWD car with traction control, and which can be manually switched by the driver to RWD or FWD, at will, and on the fly. Does anything like that exist yet?
gt
Last edited by kizz; Mar 13, 2003 at 07:33 PM.
Originally posted by kizz
Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead here, but how about the best of both worlds? I'd love to see a car which in "regular mode" is an AWD car with traction control, and which can be manually switched by the driver to RWD or FWD, at will, and on the fly. Does anything like that exist yet?
Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead here, but how about the best of both worlds? I'd love to see a car which in "regular mode" is an AWD car with traction control, and which can be manually switched by the driver to RWD or FWD, at will, and on the fly. Does anything like that exist yet?
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