A minor danger....
03-12-2003, 09:02 AM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
A minor danger....
I love RWD. I love going fast. I love sliding the Camaro around a turn with the tires throwing smoke and the rear end fishtailing all over the place.
That being said, GM still needs a large FWD car.
Why? Well, I live in Michigan, and it snows here. As much fun as Camaros are, I still need a grocery-getter/family car, and I prefer large cars for that purpose. Aurora, Park Avenue and LeSabre are the types of cars I'm talking about here. Big, cushy, comfortable and FWD.
Don't throw out ALL of the FWD cars in the mad rush to go RWD.
As a suggestion, I'd propose the following:
Pontiac:
FWD Sunfire
RWD Solstice/Trans Am
RWD GTO
FWD Grand Prix
AWD Bonneville
Chevrolet:
FWD Cheapo Special
FWD Cavalier
FWD Malibu
RWD Chevelle/Monte Carlo (like the SS concept)
FWD Impala
RWD Caprice (big car - for taxis and police cars and performance variants)
RWD Camaro
RWD Corvette
Cadillac
RWD CTS
RWD/AWD Seville
FWD DeVille
RWD Evoke or whatever they are calling it this week.
Just idle thinking with the idea that we can't throw out the FWD baby entirely. Suggestions?
That being said, GM still needs a large FWD car.
Why? Well, I live in Michigan, and it snows here. As much fun as Camaros are, I still need a grocery-getter/family car, and I prefer large cars for that purpose. Aurora, Park Avenue and LeSabre are the types of cars I'm talking about here. Big, cushy, comfortable and FWD.
Don't throw out ALL of the FWD cars in the mad rush to go RWD.
As a suggestion, I'd propose the following:
Pontiac:
FWD Sunfire
RWD Solstice/Trans Am
RWD GTO
FWD Grand Prix
AWD Bonneville
Chevrolet:
FWD Cheapo Special
FWD Cavalier
FWD Malibu
RWD Chevelle/Monte Carlo (like the SS concept)
FWD Impala
RWD Caprice (big car - for taxis and police cars and performance variants)
RWD Camaro
RWD Corvette
Cadillac
RWD CTS
RWD/AWD Seville
FWD DeVille
RWD Evoke or whatever they are calling it this week.
Just idle thinking with the idea that we can't throw out the FWD baby entirely. Suggestions?
03-12-2003, 09:52 AM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 10,287
Re: A minor danger....
how about
Pontiac:
FWD Sunfire
FWD/AWD Vibe
FWD/AWD Grand Am
RWD Solstice/Trans Am
RWD GTO
RWD Grand Prix
FWD/AWD Bonneville
I think an AWD V8 coupe like the G8 would be cool too.
Pontiac:
FWD Sunfire
FWD/AWD Vibe
FWD/AWD Grand Am
RWD Solstice/Trans Am
RWD GTO
RWD Grand Prix
FWD/AWD Bonneville
I think an AWD V8 coupe like the G8 would be cool too.
03-12-2003, 10:10 AM
#4
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fort Erie, Ont.
Posts: 545
Re: A minor danger....
Originally posted by PacerX
Why? Well, I live in Michigan, and it snows here.
Why? Well, I live in Michigan, and it snows here.
On a side note, the idea of an AWD Bonneville sounds cool. Sort of an Audi competitor...?
Jeff
03-12-2003, 01:14 PM
#6
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 470
I too live in Michigan and my winter car is a RWD V8 (Ford 5.0) in my 89 Grand Marquis and I think its great for the snow. Course the car does weight 6K lbs. The rear fishtails a lot but because of all the weight on the front I never loose the ability to steer, unless I am trying to.
WIth a FWD car if you punch the gas to hard, you loose traction and the ability to steer along with it.
Thats why I think RWD is better in th snow, but my dad likes FWD, so I guess its a personal preference.
WIth a FWD car if you punch the gas to hard, you loose traction and the ability to steer along with it.
Thats why I think RWD is better in th snow, but my dad likes FWD, so I guess its a personal preference.
03-12-2003, 02:47 PM
#7
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,463
I drive my Z28 all winter and have driven my previous SS M6 and Z28 A4 as well. They drive fine in the snow but are at a big disadvantage in terms of control and getting stuck. FWD cars take off faster and are less on edge in the control area. While we all know neither will handle or perform better in the snow it sure is less comforting for less skilled drivers to handle.
03-12-2003, 03:59 PM
#9
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: CNY
Posts: 2,224
What the hell did everyone do before FWD & AWD?
I don't remember anyone saying "if only the car makers would make a car that would go better in the snow".
We put snows on 'em, threw some weight in the trunk, and we were off. No problems.
The only reason car makers went FWD was for packaging considerations. That's it. They used the "superior traction" theory as a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy into FWD.
I personally hate FWD. On dry pavement, wet pavement, or snowy pavement. If you spike the throttle at all, the car loses directional control and will push (understeer) until something stops it. With RWD, you can use the throttle to steer the car.
S**tcan FWD and make 'em all RWD with defeatable traction control and yaw control (for the pansies).
I don't remember anyone saying "if only the car makers would make a car that would go better in the snow".
We put snows on 'em, threw some weight in the trunk, and we were off. No problems.
The only reason car makers went FWD was for packaging considerations. That's it. They used the "superior traction" theory as a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy into FWD.
I personally hate FWD. On dry pavement, wet pavement, or snowy pavement. If you spike the throttle at all, the car loses directional control and will push (understeer) until something stops it. With RWD, you can use the throttle to steer the car.
S**tcan FWD and make 'em all RWD with defeatable traction control and yaw control (for the pansies).
03-12-2003, 05:52 PM
#10
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,873
Originally posted by HuJass
What the hell did everyone do before FWD & AWD?
I don't remember anyone saying "if only the car makers would make a car that would go better in the snow".
We put snows on 'em, threw some weight in the trunk, and we were off. No problems.
The only reason car makers went FWD was for packaging considerations. That's it. They used the "superior traction" theory as a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy into FWD.
I personally hate FWD. On dry pavement, wet pavement, or snowy pavement. If you spike the throttle at all, the car loses directional control and will push (understeer) until something stops it. With RWD, you can use the throttle to steer the car.
S**tcan FWD and make 'em all RWD with defeatable traction control and yaw control (for the pansies).
What the hell did everyone do before FWD & AWD?
I don't remember anyone saying "if only the car makers would make a car that would go better in the snow".
We put snows on 'em, threw some weight in the trunk, and we were off. No problems.
The only reason car makers went FWD was for packaging considerations. That's it. They used the "superior traction" theory as a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy into FWD.
I personally hate FWD. On dry pavement, wet pavement, or snowy pavement. If you spike the throttle at all, the car loses directional control and will push (understeer) until something stops it. With RWD, you can use the throttle to steer the car.
S**tcan FWD and make 'em all RWD with defeatable traction control and yaw control (for the pansies).
I'll take RWD and be happy 325 days a year rather than FWD and be happy the 30 days it really snows. Yes, I live in Michigan.
03-12-2003, 08:02 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: oshawa,ontario,canada
Posts: 3,597
Originally posted by HuJass
What the hell did everyone do before FWD & AWD?
I don't remember anyone saying "if only the car makers would make a car that would go better in the snow".
We put snows on 'em, threw some weight in the trunk, and we were off. No problems.
The only reason car makers went FWD was for packaging considerations. That's it. They used the "superior traction" theory as a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy into FWD.
I personally hate FWD. On dry pavement, wet pavement, or snowy pavement. If you spike the throttle at all, the car loses directional control and will push (understeer) until something stops it. With RWD, you can use the throttle to steer the car.
S**tcan FWD and make 'em all RWD with defeatable traction control and yaw control (for the pansies).
What the hell did everyone do before FWD & AWD?
I don't remember anyone saying "if only the car makers would make a car that would go better in the snow".
We put snows on 'em, threw some weight in the trunk, and we were off. No problems.
The only reason car makers went FWD was for packaging considerations. That's it. They used the "superior traction" theory as a marketing ploy to get consumers to buy into FWD.
I personally hate FWD. On dry pavement, wet pavement, or snowy pavement. If you spike the throttle at all, the car loses directional control and will push (understeer) until something stops it. With RWD, you can use the throttle to steer the car.
S**tcan FWD and make 'em all RWD with defeatable traction control and yaw control (for the pansies).
03-12-2003, 10:04 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Look enthusiasts...
I appreciate RWD as much as the next guy, but any knucklehead who says that RWD is better than FWD in snow needs to step away from the crack pipe.
It has NOTHING to do with driver skill, and has everything to do with the weight of the powertrain being directly over the drive wheels.
Add to that the fact that FWD is more efficient for packaging and universally results in more interior space for a given weight/cost and you have a solid case for keeping FWD around.
Do FWD cars plow? Yes. Do FWD cars suffer from lower acceleration times? Yes. Are they handicapped with torque steer? Yes.
Are they better on snow? YES. Are they more fuel efficient? YES. Are they more efficient for interior space? YES.
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
Saying there is no use for FWD anymore, or that RWD is just as good or better in snow is STUPID. GM better not make that bet either.
I appreciate RWD as much as the next guy, but any knucklehead who says that RWD is better than FWD in snow needs to step away from the crack pipe.
It has NOTHING to do with driver skill, and has everything to do with the weight of the powertrain being directly over the drive wheels.
Add to that the fact that FWD is more efficient for packaging and universally results in more interior space for a given weight/cost and you have a solid case for keeping FWD around.
Do FWD cars plow? Yes. Do FWD cars suffer from lower acceleration times? Yes. Are they handicapped with torque steer? Yes.
Are they better on snow? YES. Are they more fuel efficient? YES. Are they more efficient for interior space? YES.
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
Saying there is no use for FWD anymore, or that RWD is just as good or better in snow is STUPID. GM better not make that bet either.
03-12-2003, 10:37 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: oshawa,ontario,canada
Posts: 3,597
Originally posted by PacerX
Look enthusiasts...
Do FWD cars plow? Yes. Do FWD cars suffer from lower acceleration times? Yes. Are they handicapped with torque steer? Yes
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
Look enthusiasts...
Do FWD cars plow? Yes. Do FWD cars suffer from lower acceleration times? Yes. Are they handicapped with torque steer? Yes
A week ago, we had a nice snow here in Michigan, and I GUARANTEE you would NEVER get a Camaro out of my driveway afterwards. But my little Dodge Aries plowed right through, and then PULLED MY BIG, BAD CAMARO SS THROUGH A DRIFT it couldn't get out of.
03-12-2003, 11:17 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Yreka CA
Posts: 158
PacerX, one little correction to make. You said the Impy should be FWD...I say make it RWD on the same chassis with Caprice and call the current Impy, Lumina because that what it is...an oversize Lumina. It is a great looking car and has a great engine with the 3.8 but Impala to me is big, fast and rear drive with lots of V8 power!