guionM

BMW sold 134,000 of them last year & plans to break 140,000 this year. Kind of put's the 35,000 final year's combined sales of the f-bodies in perspective.

http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_la...2dM9%2fandl485

IZ28

Link not working again guion.

CamaroJim

it sold that many because they are new. look at the first year 4th gen sales figures. the mini sales will drop

redzed

Not much of a comparison with the F-body. The Mini is sold and distributed worldwide whereas GM only made a half-hearted attempt to sell the Camaro in Europe.

Considering that the Mini carries a premium price, no 5-door option, and no diesel version for europe, the sales performance is remarkable. GM should take heed. If BMW is having success with a small, lower-end car - and plans further moves in that direction with the 1-series - maybe a $125,000 Cadillac V12 is a stupid idea.

guionM

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4075&bt=mini

Sorry about that.

guionM

Actually the 4th gen didn't catch on till about 95 or 96.

IZ28

Actually it was 94 and 95, the only good selling years of the 4th Gen. You can consider that the beginning.

Z28Wilson

I very honestly have not seen a single Mini on the road around here....

Z284ever

Really??? They are everywhere here.

R377

That's not a valid comparison. The only reason the Mini is selling as well as it is is because of the nostalgia factor. If there were no mini 40 years ago to appeal to the emotions of baby boomers, it would be just another small underpowered car in a crowded market.

BTW, it's the same with the New Beetle. Taken by itself the car has very few redeeming qualities, but since people recognize the shape they make the emotional connection to the original.

In both cases the original sold on its intrinsic value, while the "modern" version is just whoring that image.

Cadillac is absolutely going in the right direction. In the short term BMW's and Mercedes' strategies work well because perception always lags reality in the marketplace, so people still perceive them as expensive brands even though Mercedes now sells a $25,000 hatchback. Eventually this will catch up to them and dilute their brands' equity, at which point their entire lines will suffer.

Going upmarket is harder, but the rewards are far greater. Even now, Cadillac sells more $40,000+ cars than any other brand in North America. (And because of trucks, Chevy sells more $35,000+ vehicles than any other brand.)

WERM

That and it's a very fun car. I'll argue that "Nostalgia Factor" for the Mini doesn't hold, since it was A) Never sold in this country in any significant number B) Was still sold in a significant number of markets globally most of its production run and C) was produced up until a year ago or so and D) replaced immediately by a car that looks similar, like say the 2003 accord vs. the 2002 accord.

If anything, it proves that there is a market for inexpensive, FUN, stylish cars.

redzed

The new Mini actually makes sense as an urban performance car in congested Europe, especially as the supercharged Cooper S. As far as playing on nostalia, the original Austin Mini sold in miniscule numbers in the U.S. - it disappeared after 1967 because it couldn't meet Federal safety standard. Novelty, and the prestige of being sold from BMW franchises, are the reasons why a Geo Metro sized car is selling in the U.S. The New Beetle was a different story. Big nostalgia stateside, poor sales in Europe because it was comparitively large and space inefficient.

As far as less expensive cars diluting the image, Mercedes are used as taxis in Germany, just like Crown Vics in New York. Similarly, there were available with plaid upholstery, plastic hub caps and weak 75hp diesel motors. Didn't diminish the image of the brand, though.

Cadillac might sell the most $40,000 sedans in the United States, but those sedans are going to increasingly elderly buyers. With ZERO name credibility among Lexus and BMW buyers, Cadillac is faced with starting from scratch before their customer base dies off. The CTS represented a small victory for entry-level near luxury buyers, but $70-125,000 cars are irrelevant, especially for a brand with such a poor image. Can you say "Allante?"

Mercedes and BMW are successful brands, and will maintain that success by extending their product range downmarket. BMW 1-series buyers will trade into to larger, higher profit models as they age, just as 3-series buyers do today.

Mercedes might be less successful, as their cheaper cars have been purchased by affluent, but elderly, retirees. (I know an octogenarian that's moved from a 300E to a C280 to a C230 Sport Coupe. In ten years he'd traded down from a $47,000 to a $27,000 car. At least they kept him in the brand fold, something GM wishes it could do with the oldsters trading Buicks for Toyotas.) This phenomenon is more prevalent in Europe, but it hasn't stopped Mercedes from gaining market share. The move downmarket has killed the topend offerings of Ford, Opel and Citroen.

Going downmarket sells, trying to push a brand up the prestige ladder doesn't.

R377

So I guess you're agreeing with me on this one .

But remember that Mercedes doesn't have the same "premium" status in Europe as it does here. It's certainly more upscale than, say, Peugeot, but it's not held in the quite the same regard by Europeans as it is by North Americans.

Boy, we hear this argument a lot. Yes, Cadillac's buyers are old, but they almost always have been. And since people live longer and longer, there's an increasing pool of affluent old people to buy their cars. Pride aside, I don't think GM cares if it's a 60 year-old or a 40 year-old signing the cheques.

Allante is a different kettle of fish. Poor quality and poor execution killed it more than other factor. If done right and with reasonable sales goals, the XLR will do well. (I'll agree that the Cien might be too much of a stretch though.) Remember how people laughed at Toyota when they launched Lexus?

Yes, but like I said it will be short term success. How do you have a "premium" brand when its cheapest models are accessible to anyone? When its cheapest models sell for less than a Hyundai? What's so special about saying, "I own a BMW" when guys working at Burger King can afford one?

I'm not saying it's an overnight transformation, but eventually people will cease to covet them because they're no longer hard to get.

Again, only in the short term. Cadillacs used to sell for as much as a Rolls Royce, but in the pursuit of volume they gradually lowered their price and weakened their brand. As long as the price reductions keep ahead of public perception they were okay, but eventually you reach the bottom like Caddy did in the 80s. Now they're trying to turn it around. It won't be easy but it can be done.

Another history lesson: BMW used to sell cheap little Isetta mini cars, but they successfully brought their brand upmarket. Let's hope their ride back down is just as fun .