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There needs to be a Sedan version of the 5th gen

Old 12-09-2002, 07:51 PM
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There needs to be a Sedan version of the 5th gen

What I mean by this is that for the Camaro to be more profitable I think it will need to share a platform with a low cost RWD sedan. This can be done so it doesn't look like there is a 4-door Camaro. Just look the Impala and Monte Carlo, 98% of the people out there don't know that it is basiclly the same car. I Malibu/IS300 size RWD car would be perfect. The Monte only sells about 60-80,000 cars a year. They could sell 60,000 Camaros, 40,000 trans-ams/firebirds, and 75,000 Sedans easy. plus possible built some car like the Rageous or Nomad concept.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:49 PM
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I don't have a problem with it as long as it looks nothing like the Camaro version and doesn't share the name either, like Camaro sedan or something like that.
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Old 12-09-2002, 08:52 PM
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Re: There needs to be a Sedan version of the 5th gen

Originally posted by Z28x
What I mean by this is that for the Camaro to be more profitable I think it will need to share a platform with a low cost RWD sedan....
I'm guessing that's the idea behind the Chevy SS concept. It's going to have a low height compared to other sedans currently out.
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Old 12-10-2002, 08:00 AM
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Well, If Sigma is still being considered, it will be shared with more than one other vehicle...
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Old 12-10-2002, 01:20 PM
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Actually, I think an AWD Camaro sedan tagged with a Camaro 2 seater would be more profitable than a RWD sedan. That way people from northern colder climates would be able drive a Camaro in the winter...what a concept...
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Old 12-10-2002, 01:29 PM
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Didnt they think of the Gt8? A ls1 AWD 4 door grand prix??

Cost would be huge. An AWD system that can handle the HP and TQ of the motor, driven like a sports car?

Think of the GSX eclipses, laughing how they'd take the launch though... an awd ls1 camaro would have 0-60 times of like 2.8 seconds or some sickly low number on drag radials and the right gears...
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Old 12-10-2002, 01:49 PM
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I'm still not ready to give up the lighter weight & better handling of a good RWD car and pay the extra bucks just because of what the weather might be during 3 months out of the year.

Do some of you ever wonder how we got around in the winter with RWD for the 70 years or so before everyone bought into the "I need AWD or I'll die in the winter" mentality?

Just for the record, I lived in hilly western Pennsylvania, till I was 20, and neither my Camaro or my Malibu had positraction, and my final vehicle there was a pickup truck (2 wheel drive, not 4WD).

Yes, I drove all 3 in the winter.
No, I never had an accident.
Yes, I was a "minimally experienced" teenage driver.
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Old 12-10-2002, 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by guionM

Do some of you ever wonder how we got around in the winter with RWD for the 70 years or so before everyone bought into the "I need AWD or I'll die in the winter" mentality?

Oh so true....

I live in NE Ohio and we get our fair share of snow in the winter...

I am 30 and have had the following cars as year round drivers:

1978 Grand Prix
1989 Camaro RS
1997 S-10 ZR2 4x4
1999 Camaro Z28
2002 Monte Carlo SS

and I am SOOOOOOOO sick of hearing about how these people CAN'T drive RWD in the winter.




If you don't want to drive it to keep it in niceer condition, so be it, but dont use winter as an excuse not to use a Camaro as a year round car. If you drive carefully (as you should in ANY vehicle in the winter) , the Camaro is fine in the winter.
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Old 12-10-2002, 02:08 PM
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Just for the record...I have not driven a RWD car in the winter yet, I've just heard from a majority of people that Camaro/Firebirds are worse than FWD and AWD by far because they like to fishtail.
[/hijacking]

How much more money would an AWD Camaro sedan w/ the same engine as a RWD Camaro coupe be?

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Old 12-10-2002, 02:19 PM
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AWD!?! Sorry but I don't want (or need) the extra weight!

As long as you're a competent driver, there's no problem driving a RWD car in winter conditions.
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Old 12-10-2002, 03:19 PM
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They might be a little more difficult but if you know what you are doing as said, its OK.

Camaro=RWD.
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Old 12-10-2002, 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Darth Xed

If you don't want to drive it to keep it in niceer condition, so be it, but dont use winter as an excuse not to use a Camaro as a year round car. If you drive carefully (as you should in ANY vehicle in the winter) , the Camaro is fine in the winter.
Yes, you can make a Camaro work in most winter conditions, but it isn't a very good idea. I get by with snowtreads (no-studs) on the rear-end of my full-sized winter rat. The fact that the car weighs 4000lbs, has narrower tires, and two inches more ground clearance means that its a fairly decent winter car.
It will cut through over 6 inches of snow, and is more stable around the corners because of the long wheelbase.

With the factory treads, my Z28 would get stuck in a blue frost, just like my big RWD sedan before the snow treads. (Snow tires are hard to find in the appropriate size - and tire chains are never an option.) Even with the right rubber, these cars like to spin on icy pavement, which is just a measure of the short wheelbase.


In any case, there is no way I would relish driving my Camaro in the snow. It has nothing to do with power. Even AWD or FWD wouldn't change the most negative attributes. Full stability control/ traction control might make a huge difference, but it would need a kill switch for when you need to power a car across and unplowed intersection. (The limited traction control the F4 offered didn't do much good in winter because it only came with the wider tires on V8s. One little step forward, one HUGE step back.)

For the record, the highway patrol's Z28 interceptors are parked for most of the winter around here. They rely solely upon Crown Vics/Tahoes/Blazers/Expeditions when the snow starts to fall.
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Old 12-10-2002, 05:20 PM
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It doesn't matter what wheels drive the car as long as 50% or more weight is on those wheels. just look at the old WV bugs, I hear they were like tanks in the snow. The Camaros problem was that too much weight was on the front end and LOTS of low end power. Traction control will fix the high power issue. and 50/50 weight distribution light rear end problem, just look at all the new cars that are 50/50 and have traction and stibility control (CTS,Lincon LS, Vette, BMW's, Merc.)

good tires helps a lot too
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Old 12-10-2002, 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Z28x
It doesn't matter what wheels drive the car as long as 50% or more weight is on those wheels. just look at the old WV bugs, I hear they were like tanks in the snow. The Camaros problem was that too much weight was on the front end and LOTS of low end power. Traction control will fix the high power issue. and 50/50 weight distribution light rear end problem, just look at all the new cars that are 50/50 and have traction and stibility control (CTS,Lincon LS, Vette, BMW's, Merc.)

good tires helps a lot too
The rear-engined VWs were awful in the snow. With all of the weight in the rear end, the cars would ride up over the snow, not cut through it. Sand bags in the truck (up front of course) fixed that problem.

As far as weight distribution, the LS1 F-bodies weren't too bad, better than many traditional RWD sedans, and way better than a 4x4 pickup.
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Old 12-10-2002, 06:42 PM
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I don't care, I still prefer RWD in the snow...

I think part of the hysteria exists because mostly sports cars and "no weight on the back" 2WD pickups are the only things left RWD anymore - and they have always been the worst in snow - even back when everything else was RWD too.
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